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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have one LM yearling that hasn't cycled yet. The other 5 girls have all cycled a 2 or 3 times and are hopefully bred now. Am I being over concerned about this? Does anyone have any suggestions or should we call the vet? I really don't think I've missed her -we've even been putting her in with the buck every 2 or 3 days just in case she is hiding it well. She was a Mar 06 kid, good health and weight.
Thank you!
Ginger
 

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Is there a chance she might be sterile??? I had 1 that was and she never cycled...
 

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Are her teats the same shape and size as her friends? Does her vulva look just like theirs? If you spread her vuvla part, or stick your pinky in, does it go in? Do you see any protrusions? Vicki
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's what is worrying me - are there any indicators for that? That really would be the luck of the draw since this is a nice little doe that was the JR BDIS this year at our county fair. Is it correct that she can't be Lute'd if she hasn't cycled before? In my few short yrs with goats I haven't had any issues like this and also haven't used any hormones before so I'm clueless.
 

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Oh the curse of the BDIS nubain junior, means she is well grown, bigger than her age class, wide, long...hmm sort of like bucklings outgrow their counterparts??? :) Sorry only half teasing!

Sometimes it's soo overt you can tell by just lifting their tail, with some pressure the penis which looks like a protursion of skin is visible, othertimes the vulva is really tipped up at the end, and you can't even get a lubed pinky in...this with teats like Playtex nurser bottles, short squat and no udder formation like her sisters the same age, and you know you have a problem. Othertimes it's not until you have tried everything that you know at butcher.

At the least do what I am doing with Babbette....CIDR, 21 days later pull the CIDR and give her 1.5 cc IM of PG600 and do the 2cc IM of lutelyse. Pull the CIDR 12 hours later and put her in with the buck. Have 1cc to give IM of cysterellon to give her as the buck breeds her....no heat and you have an incomplete vaginal tract, give up. Vicki
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Update - I just spent the last 15 minutes typing a reply - probably more of an emotional rant and lost the post because I didn't have my login time set high enough -argh -maybe for the best I just needed to get past the tears because it's taken me a full day before I could even post it here. We took our Ariel to the vet yesterday and he confirmed what I suspected. Only a couple inches into the vaginal tract hit a wall. He said that combined with the no heat, 95% sure free-martin. She appears normal though teats are smaller -real tell-tale sign when I compared her to this years doeling and the teats were the same. No bucky body type or abnormal vulva and yes she was a twin with a male. Vet said it's the first goat he's seen like this in his years of practice -sees it in calves every year. What are the statistics on this?

We're having one of those if it weren't for bad luck we wouldn't have any at all kind of years. After culling our original 2 Nubians this past year due to lack of quality and uneducated decisions in the beginning and more than our share of other issues, I said no more free-loaders!.. but for now she will remain as a pet because I just can't think about the alternative and she has the sweetest personality and is loved. I'm sure learning not to have expectations for jr does - it doesn't matter how perfect the pieces appear to be if the most important one is missing.
Ginger
 

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goatmom said:
We're having one of those if it weren't for bad luck we wouldn't have any at all kind of years.
Man can I relate to that statement this year.

Sorry about your girl. Maybe you could sell her to a pet home and then use the money to help purchase a nice milking doe, possibly one that is bred that someone is selling because they are cutting back their herd this fall.
 

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:( Well how dissapointing for you. Sorry it turned out that way, but at least you know now what the problem is.
 

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Vet said it's the first goat he's seen like this in his years of practice -sees it in calves every year. What are the statistics on this?
I'm sure the statistics would be skewed, just because it's not reported and most non-breeders are disposed of.
It is very rare that this happens with twins/triplets in goats. Not nearly as wide spread as in calves. Think of all the kids born every year to goats as twins in comparison to calves born as twins.??
In all the years of breeding goats, I've only had 1 born hermaphrodite and it was a polled to polled Nubian. That tells how many years ago that happened! ;) There is a long, drawn out, explaination for this in bovine and caprine and I just don't have the time right now to post it. Maybe, when things slow down a little.
Kaye
 

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Sorry to hear about your girl. I had one exactly like that. I went to put a speculum in her and her vagina was only about an inch and a half long. Just long enough that she could pee like a doe.

We butchered ours, and it was very interesting to look at her inside -- there was just basically NO repro tract at all. No ovaries, no testicles, no uterus. Just basically that inch or so of vagina that connected it to the bladder.

I don't think it's that uncommon a thing honestly, I just don't think many goats actually make it to the vets.


Tracy

Tracy
 

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Back in the day :) we used to try to see if does shared amnotic sacks with their brothers...it tells you how bad our copper problems were back then that we had kids born in sacks, or busted sacks to get kids out of!!! But supposedly it isn't being a twin sharing a placenta, it's co-twining in the same sack. It's not rare enough that we don't hear of one or two a year, but its rare enough that it doesn't happen much in a herd. Vicki
 

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Boy oh Boy is Bella Sera getting a thorough check this evening!
I thought this hermaphrodite/non-breeder thing was very rare....
Suffice to say, haven't gotten her bred...and she has lived with the buck for over a month! Can't say I am too fond of dry yearlings right now...not fat (we tried to be careful about that), but we have 4 (2 took forever to get bred) and 1 out of 2 of my friend's have been difficult as well. Interesting to note that the 2 of ours were being pen-bred. Pulled them and then tested for Pg with Biotracking....OPEN. Grrrr.
Back to hand-breeding Dairy goats. Seem to have a better handle on things that way.
 

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Question on the breeding protocol...

We have no CIDRs. No Pg 600 either. Can we just give lutelyse and then later use the cysterellin as listed?

Thanks. Camille
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The co-twining in the same sack makes perfect sense with what the vet explained to me -that during development the male secretes a very tiny amount of hormones- and that just shuts down any further development of the doelings reproductive organs. Very interesting about the intact sack and copper def. Will stick that back in my things to remember and watch for during kidding.
 

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Well, Bella Sera is normal. Whew. Back to the drawing board.
 

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I have a yearling that I haven't seen cycle also. I hope it's not for this same reason. The breeder didn't want her, so gave her to me to pay for as I can. I'm glad I haven't paid anything yet. If she can't breed, I'll have to ask this lady, what she wants to do next. :sigh
 

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In the 14 years we have had goats we have had two hermaphrodites. They were both the same year. One was a kid who went Jr. Grand at the VA State Fair, she was so nice that she came in 2nd in the BDIS to the National Jr. Toggenburg. The Judge walked over to me and said it was a very difficult decision because she was absolutely stunning. The second was a doe kid I had saved and saved for. I made special transportation arrangements to get her to VA. I couldn't make transportation arrangements the following year so that kid didn't work out.

Trust me you are not alone in your disappointment.

Take care,

Jolene
 

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I, too, had a doeling that went BDIS and then was unable to have kids. After the second year of not conceiving, I found a nice pet home for her. I never did have her checked by the vet, but I'm sure she is a freemartin.
 

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We have one, too :D My son's first goat. She is a fat thing. We use her to keep bucks company if for some reason we have one by itself. She puts them in their place double-quick!
 
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