Wormers and Withdrawal Times

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by MF-Alpines, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

    5,133
    0
    0
    Worming pregnant does has been a topic of conversation lately. It's usually mentioned about the long withdrawal time for Ivomec Plus and that it's not an issue if given at 100 days bred because by the time the doe kids, the withdrawal time will be over.

    Cydectin has a 56 day withdrawal time and most give that the day of kidding. Is no one concerned about that withdrawal period? Or do you all follow it because the milk just goes to the kids?

    I know many can't wait to have milk in their house again whether it be for milk or cheese and most just wait a week or two before consuming it. We use ours and we're not dead yet.

    It just seems odd to me that there's talk about the long withdrawal period of Ivermectin products, but no mention of Cydectin and human consumption of milk.

    Comments?
     
  2. swgoats

    swgoats New Member

    2,915
    0
    0
    Honestly I don't worry about either, but I'm not selling milk.
     

  3. Greylady

    Greylady New Member

    760
    0
    0
    How late is too late to do the wormings on the pg does. With Ivomec + is the milk safe for the kids to drink? We missed the date for getting that wormer done to a couple of does....
     
  4. PrairieTrail45

    PrairieTrail45 New Member

    238
    0
    0
    I don't usually do any withdrawal with cydectin, but don't start drinking my does' milk until about 5 days after they kid to let the colostrum taste get out of the milk. Sometimes I get impatient though and start drinking it a little earlier, even if it still tastes a bit off from the colostrum.

    As far as I know, kids can have the milk no matter what the dam was given, even antibiotics that have a withdrawal for us are perfectly safe for the kids.
     
  5. Laverne

    Laverne New Member

    844
    0
    0
    At the Jeffers website it says that Cydectin pour-on has a zero milk withdrawal for dairy cattle, but we give it orally to goats and goats have a faster metabolism. The Cydectin injectable says that a withdrawal hasn't been established. I am going to get that, to give orally, instead of the pour-on after I run out of it. But I dump the first milking and then 5 milkings go to the dogs.
     
  6. todog

    todog New Member

    635
    0
    0
    with that thought in mind, if you give the dogs the milk with the possible wormer in the milk are you worming the dogs too, and with that in mind if you use the milk for human consuption with the wormer in the milk are you worming the human? ok its late and i worked a full shift today but really is that why the withdrawl times are on the product?
     
  7. Laverne

    Laverne New Member

    844
    0
    0
    I figure the first milk has the most residual wormer, so I dump it. It is so diluted anyway that no de-worming in dogs would occur, nor would occur in baby goats.
     
  8. swgoats

    swgoats New Member

    2,915
    0
    0
    I don't have the exact figures of how much is passed through milk, but what I have heard is no, it is not enough to worm a human drinking milk.
     
  9. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    0
    0
    There are no figures. That is the first thing you have to understand with all this, dairygoats not counted on the census, is a lesser breed, there is zero real information on milk withdrawal because nobody actually does the science. If all the worms and eggs and larve are out of the goat in 12 hours, really think residuals of the wormer is around for days or weeks?

    There is no actual drug in the milk, it is carrier if there is anything to even be found.

    It's all guessing, the only actual test ran on a goat at the old dosage of 4cc per 100 pounds was ran by my old club on Valbazen at 48 hours there was nothing detected in the milk. We couldn't afford to run tests at 12, 24 and 36 hours so we guessed at 48 and sent those in.

    Nobody has 1cc per 22 pounds of Cydectin cattle pour on given to a goat, and tested for milk withdrawal. And then comes the whole metabolism thing....my dairy goat milking 10 pounds is going to have a much shorter milk withdrawal time than a goat who milks 4 pounds.

    We are for now stuck with information from cattle, research the 'research' on milk withdrawal on dairy goats, even the bibliography of Goat Medicine isn't dosages we use, routes we use, and certainly not dairy animals found in America. Vicki
     
  10. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

    5,133
    0
    0
    I think you are missing my point. Especially in the happyvagabonds thread on fecal sampling/worming, again it is mentioned about giving IvomecPlus at 100 days bred to accomodate the long milk withdrawal, yet Cydectin is given on the day they kid, with a 56 day milk withdrawal, and no one bats an eye.

    I just don't understand the concern over the IvomecPlus vs the Cydectin regarding milk withdrawals.
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    0
    0
    Cindy please forward the science that Cydectin was given at 1cc per 22 pounds orally to a dairy goat and the literature that shows what was in the milk 55 days later. Vicki
     
  12. smithurmonds

    smithurmonds New Member

    991
    0
    0
    I think Cindy is saying, where is the science that Ivomec plus needs the long milk withdrawal? Why bother with one withdrawal when we're not concerned with another, not necessarily that we should be concerned with cydectin. Is that right, Cindy?
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    0
    0
    Ivermectin Plus contains a flukeicide. Cydectin does not. Is it the same flukeicide as in Valbazen with it's short milk withdrawal? Vicki
     
  14. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

    5,133
    0
    0
    :yeahthat

    Yes, my point is getting lost.

    Vicki, I do not have science for withdrawals. I'm going by the withdrawal periods that are listed in the Wormer & Cocci section of this forum. I'm not saying that there even IS that long of a withdrawal period for either wormers. If there is science, even behind the IvomecPlus, sure, I'd like to see it, as well as the Cydectin.

    I'm assuming that most don't have the science on it, either, as not much is published on goats.

    However, as Nicki nicely summed it up for me, one more time.......why is everyone seemingly concerned about withdrawal for IvomecPlus, but not for Cydectin? I don't know how to ask this question more simply than this.
     
  15. Trysta

    Trysta New Member

    1,311
    0
    0
    It probably doesn't help you any if i say that I DO worry about both withdrawal periods, but I can't find any actual research on goats on which they based these withdrawal times either. That's the ONE thing I really hate about goats: you are in the dark on so many issues. I wish we were all grown up and respected like the cow peeps...
    Marion
     
  16. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    0
    0
    And it goes back to them being the lesser ruminant species, how many filled out their census, if the USDA and drug manufacturers thinks there is only 1 million dairy goats in this country when there are 10 million or more, we will never get anything to change. We are votes and dollars spent and that is all.

    You have to figure out this stuff for yourself, I can't explain why I would worry more about the flukecide given orally, when I am not at all concerned that a pouron has a zero milk withdrawal for cattle. And some of it is what I have to do, since nothing else works. I have devoured the info out there, mostly using the bibliography of Goat Medicine at the University when it first came out, the studies are pretty clear on the use of flukecides in dairy cattle....so I set the management for my farm.
     
  17. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

    5,133
    0
    0
    Ok, so it's really the flukecide that you're more concerned about than any of the -ectins.