What in the heck is going on here?? help please

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by susie, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. susie

    susie New Member

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    My doe Jasmine is the one that had two decomposed babies and a doeling yesterday( dead babies first then the doe,) she was 6 days overdue.
    I have not seen the doeling nurse basically she just stands there, same with the doe. I've been tube feeding the doeling colostrum, she was cold last night so I brought her in and warmed her up - i didn't realize she was as cold as she was her temp was 98- neither the doe or her really ever laid down n the bedding which i think is odd. the doe is licking her and stuff, but the baby never finds the teat and kinda gives up and stands there.
    I tried putting her on the milkstand and the baby just kinda collapsed and I couldn't get her to nurse.
    so they're in the stall in the barn and i'm trying to let the kid get the hang of nursing but still tube feeding.

    The does temp is 103, the kid is 100.5 I'm going to have my hubby bring a heat lamp home, since mine broke so I can keep her warmer. I've been tubing her about 4 ounces every hour and ahalf to two hours. i would like her to be still motivated to find the teat, but i don't want to lose her either. Oh,baby and mom poop and pee ok.

    I gave them both some bo-se and the doe is on penicillin vit e to the kid also.

    what am I doing wrong/ or not doing that i should be? I've never tubed a kid or bottle-fed so are my amounts ok?
    I am so upset, I don't want to lose any more kids, and especially the doe.

    what the heck???????!

    Susie
     
  2. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    If she were mine, I'd pull her (the kid) from the doe and bottle her.. Your doe, did she pass her placenta? She could be having internal issues due to the decomposing kids.. I hope someone more knowledgeable comes on to help you out in that area.. I do know that due to kidding and the elevation or certain hormones (don't ask me which ones), the doe could be masking a fever.. as told to me by a vet. So, she could very well have a temp.
    I've never tubed a kid so I don't know how much or how often, but if you could get her to take a bottle? Maybe try a Pritchard teat until she's got the hang of it then move to a reg nipple..?
     

  3. susie

    susie New Member

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    Thank you Stacy. How much do you feed a newborn from the bottle? I do have a pritchard so I can do that. How often do they get a bottle to start with?
    oh I forgot to mention the placenta is hanging, i gave her oxytocin .5 cc to try and move it along.
    thank you,
    Susie
     
  4. Halo-M Nubians

    Halo-M Nubians New Member

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    I would think that if you are tubing her that often she doesn't really have a chance to get hungry. Definitely make sure she is warm and if you've covered all the other bases, if it were me...I'd let her go longer and see if she is more motivated to nurse. My kids that were born sunday are eating 8 oz 4x a day.
     
  5. susie

    susie New Member

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    Mishael- okay-- thanks for the reference! I'm going to let her go a little bit longer now that she's warmer.

    Susie
     
  6. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature New Member

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    If she were mine, I would have her in a box in the house and just bottle feed her. I agree that she does not have a chance to get hungry, but at this point would not take a chance of losing her if she is not vigorous enough to latch on well and eat on her own. She should be running and jumping around with a full belly by now.
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    first off you need to get her body temp up get her in the house or heating pad or heat lamp or something and in my opinion 4oz tubing every hr is way too much for a new born. Only a couple oz ever couple hrs is pleanty but if she will suck she needs to be on a bottle not tubed. IMO but of course I don't tube as a general rule well NOPE haven't tubed at all, only because I bring them in the house and fool with them until they will take the bottle:) But I do know you don't want to over do it by the tube. better to be little bits at a time. Also are you sure the milk is coming out of moms teats good?? I agree she would be in the house with me
     
  8. ellie

    ellie New Member

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    I think 103 for the doe is indicating she's incubating an infection and if it were mine I'd have her on high power antibiotics now!!!
     
  9. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I thought she was already.
     
  10. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    I have a few 20oz soda bottles in the freezer with 15oz colostrum in them. When a does is due to kid, I put a couple in the fridge and when I notice labor, or let's say it the kids come quick, then they get wiped off and into a clean box in the house. Then I'll take how ever many bottles I need & stick them in hot water. I'll stick a long thermometer in one. Check on the babies, go check on mom, give her a bit of warm water with molasses in it then go check the temp on the bottles.. When they get to 102, stick a Pritchard nipple on it & go mess with the babies. I find that if I hold them in my lap, cuddled, & let them bump my chin, I can get them to nurse pretty quick.. some babies will take a while. Be patient, let 'em sleep a bit, then try again. Those born at night, usually have me up for a while, but once they've had a good long suck, probably a couple of ounces, I let them go back to bed and get a bit of shuteye myself.
    When the bottles get to about 5ish ounces in them, I'll start adding milk to it, usually about 2 ounces, then cut it (the colostrum) in half, then let them finish the bottle, clean it, and now they're on milk..

    Hi Ellie!! It's good to see you here! Hadn't had a chance to say hi until now.. :blush
    BTW, my does generally run 103, is that odd?
     
  11. susie

    susie New Member

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    Yes the doe is on antibiotics after getting a uterine flush.
    i have the kid in the house she's on the heating pad. After waiting a long time to see if she would nurse the doe i tried giving her a bottle-- she doesn't seem interested in it but i kept wtrying and she did get some down...
    My husband and I are wondering if this kid has other issues-- when we've had her outside she just stands, never lays down, but is alert and walking... when we bring her in the house she just stands with her eyes open, not hardly blinking.. so I lie her down and she stays there and acts like she's sleeping but with her eyes open. not alert at all.

    I've not ever had one in a crate in the house by itself, but she seems to act much more lively when shes with the doe... could it be because she got a late start with the colostrum? Can i give her vit b or something to make her more alert and hungry? I don't think she's overfull, because I just started giving her colostrum last night, she was born yesterday afternoon, and I've given her like 10-12 cc's ( 2 ounces last night, then a couple times this morning, then most of the afternoon I waited for her to try to nurse from mom) I'm sorry I see I posted 4 ounces every 1.5 hours, I meant up to 4 ounces, but really more like 2 ounces, and about 2 hours apart during the day today . I'm sorry, I am a bit frazzled, i have this feeling that something is not right.... should i consider antibiotics for the kid, considering the environment she was in before her birth?

    I'm perplexed--
    thank you, for helping, please keep it coming--

    Susie
     
  12. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    I have to ask....was it a uterine flush or a vaginal flush? Did you go into the uterus?

    It's very possible that the kid has picked up an infection from the decomposed kids via the dam's bloodstream. It's also a possiblity that kid is what's commonly referred to as a "dummy". I'm not saying that to be cute...there's a medical term for it..but, SR moment. It's seen quite often in bovine. With human intervention the calf/kid will eventually learn to suck and move on it's on...but, it's never quite right.
    If it's the later...perserverance will pay off, if you want to put in the time to get the kid sucking.
    Kaye
     
  13. susie

    susie New Member

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    well< i put a flexible tube into her vulva and threaded it a far as I could, but I don't have a speculum if that's what you mean.. I hope I did ok...? i was hesitant about it, may be I should not have done it... hmmm
    well, Last night I thought for sure the doeling was going to die on me, just standing there all unanimated doing absolutely nothing, breathing weird. she's unable to get coordinated to lie down, although she can walk ok, but usually just stands. So I gave her some fluid sub-q and some Vit b and this morning she was the most animated I've seen-- she would not take abottle though, so I fed her with a syringe mouthfull by mouthfull, not that much, but I will keep up with the fluids and vit b. Oh and I gave her some Tylan 50 she's rattley, too.

    I'll just keep it up and hope she makes it-- I have to work tomorrow and Friday so not sure whatwe'll do then... dang it this sucks--- but it sure would be nice to pull her through .

    Susie
     
  14. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    Keep the kid warm and I would keep her on antibiotics for a full round. I would also give her bo-se . Let her go a few hours then try the bottle. try different nipples also .Pry her mouth open and put the nipple in , squeeze the bottle a bit to get milk in her mouth so she can taste it . Wiggle it around a bit sometimes helps. Make sure the milk is warm and also any fluids you give her also.

    Patty
     
  15. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    would be making sure that any fluids she is getting is colostrum and or milk warmed to 102 degrees. Talking abt the baby of course here
     
  16. susie

    susie New Member

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    Thanks, yes she's in the house with a heat lamp over part of her crate, so she can move away from the heat if needed. Her fluids are going in warm and I will keep trying with the bottle and will go a full course of antibiotics.

    Thank you!
    Susie
     
  17. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    What you did was a vaginal flush...useless in a uterine infection. You HAVE to go into the uterus, thru the cervix, to get the flush to work. Keep the doe on antibiotics for a full course. The only time you can use a tube other than a hard sheath is right after kidding while the cervix is still fully open. Once it closes down, you'll have to give her lute to open it back up, a speculum, and hope you can get into the cervix. Just like AI'ing only with a flush instead of semen. In fact...if you think the doe has a uterine infection...lutelyse sure wouldn't hurt now, to open it enough to drain.

    I would be tubing that kid with ...re-reading your post,it's now 3 days old...milk, warmed to 102 degrees. About 3-4 oz. every 4hrs. The stomach has *closed up* so colostrum is of no use other than as a laxative. Keep tubing this kid until she gets strong enough to develop a sucking reflex.
    Sorry...
    Kaye
     
  18. susie

    susie New Member

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    Makes sense about the flush.Thank you.
    I've been feeding the kid milk from the dam- I will make sure it's not the first colostrum- but that should be ok?

    Susie
     
  19. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    yep milk from her dam is fine.