What else could it be?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by mamatomany, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. mamatomany

    mamatomany New Member

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    I have a doe, 3 years old, about 20 days bred (I hope) who had a negative fecal done yesterday, but her gums are off color. Her eyes are fine, but her tongue and gums are not as pink as they should be. I check them weekly so this is a new thing. She is totally healthy otherwise, eats fine, 170 lbs. What would cause the off color if it was not a parasite? The vet did the fecal by the way, still haven't located a microscope :/.
     
  2. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    I'm not sure on this one, but I do know that just b/c a fecal is negative, doesn't mean there aren't parasites. It just means they aren't passing eggs, but they can still be alive, growing, and sucking blood. My vet will not say, "No parasites!" but instead says, "This fecal isn't showing any evidence of parasites." for that very reason. I'm sure others will chime in, because there are surely more things to look for than I know of! :)
     

  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Excellent post Billie....my job is done :) vicki
     
  4. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Thanks, Vicki, but your job is not done! :) Is there a possibility that something could be going on with the pregnancy causing a loss of blood? (I'm thinking of ectopic pregnancies in humans... do goats get those?) And if you suspect parasites, but don't see anything on the fecal, what would you use to treat her? Would you wait a couple days to see if the breeding took before choosing a wormer?
     
  5. mamatomany

    mamatomany New Member

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    Yes, all of those questions would be awesome to get answered :)
     
  6. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well for me personally I would wait until she is at least 3mo into the pg and then worm her with cydectin 3 time in a row but pm Vicki and ask
     
  7. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    AH ! This is the beauty of having/getting a microscope at your first chance. If I don't find much today, then I always do a follow up 2 to 3 days later......and then again a week later. Those eggs tend to shed in cycles, and one test every 3 to 6 months can be inconclusive in my opinion.

    From strictly a maintenence standpoint, I never base my findings or prescribed wormings from one fecal test.....but usually at least 2 or 3, ...that is unless I find something that is off the scale and spooky looking.

    WHIM
     
  8. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Stop looking at the gums, check the lower eyelid if you're not doing fecals. Geez...I don't know where this "gum thing" found it's way into parasite mointering...but, the FAMACHA is for eyelids only. Try checking the color of gums/tounge on an Oberhasli ~they're BLACK! Even in cattle, the tounge/gums are not the same color as the membranes of the eye.
    It works in dogs but not goats.
    Kaye
     
  9. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Kaye, I think the part that throws me is that she normally checks the gums and they're different. I know that eyelids are what you're supposed to check, and I've been told by a vet that for goats if you rely on gums, they'll die before you catch it, but what other reasons could cause a color change in gums? Hormonal? I know in people, that can be it... (Sorry, crazy pregnant lady on a quest to solve a mystery here! :) )
     
  10. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Cause the vet is wrong :/
     
  11. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    Sondra the vet said NOT to rely on goats because they ill be dead before you get any practical info from the gum color...
     
  12. Haglerfarm

    Haglerfarm New Member

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    My vet said to check the eyes not gums. They said that is more reliable. Actually when I went to a master goat producer course and they taught FAMACHA, it was a vet teaching it.
    Les
     
  13. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Duh LeeAnne guess I can't read either :) Thanks for clearing that up
     
  14. mamatomany

    mamatomany New Member

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    Thank you guys so much...her eye lids are great....anyone have an extra microscope? :)
     
  15. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    go get a kids one for 20 30 bucks as it will work then move up to a good microscope.
     
  16. mamatomany

    mamatomany New Member

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    I remember you sayin that Sondra, I did buy one from Toys R Us, and it stunk terribly. You get what you pay for right...I don't know - I guess I was hoping. Hopefully something will come up.
     
  17. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    It needs to have a light that is for sure.
     
  18. FRW

    FRW New Member

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    Change in the color of the gums could be from just drinking cool water.The cool water will slow the blood circulation to the mouth area.If the doe is chewing her cudd her gums will look a little pinker than normal because of the blood circulation in and around the mouth. The tongue is one of the strongest muscles in the body.When an area is warmer the area will become red from more blood circulation and when it is cooler the circulation slows down.
    If you are going to use the gums to check for a possible illness it would be to press the gums to see how fast the blood returns to the tissue.( That is if they are pink) This is a way you could check her if you were suspicious of dehydration etc. The same way a vet my lift up on the skin of an animal to see how the skin returns back to its normal placing.
    A Dr. may press on the finger nail of a child to check for blood return also for dehydration.
    After working the ER for 5 yrs as a Registered Respiratory Therapist you learn to try to see what the main problem is because sometimes there is not enough time for testing when you are trying to save a life.
    If some were to walk in the ER weak or non responsive the first thing I would do is check the bottom inside eye lid and pupil response to light. It will show anemia real quick. Dehydration takes bloodwork.

    At least you are paying attention to the physical well being of your herd.
    But remember you know your animals better than anyone that is on this post. Trust in your instincts
    if you feel there is a problem with her, keep an eye on her.
    It is not always an exact science using finger nails or a dogs skin that they are dehydrated but it is something you can use for a quick diagnosis. After working the ER for 5 yrs you learn little to try to see what the main problem is because sometimes there is not enough time for testing when you are trying to save a life.
    I bought by microscope off of ebay about 10 years back and it was brand new. The company bought them in large quantities for labs ,schools etc. Came with a plastic case slids etc.and a full 2 year warranty.
     
  19. shawhee

    shawhee Member

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    I bought my microscope off of ebay a few months ago and paid like 25-30 bucks, it is very nice. So that is a good place to look.

    Shawna