Viagra for Bucks!?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by wardarden, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. wardarden

    wardarden New Member

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    OK, seriously, is there something that can stimulate a bucks libido?? My girls are getting frustrated and so am I! I purchased a 4 year old Oberhasli buck this summer from a lady who is getting out of the dairy goats. His genetics are GREAT. National placings on top and bottom. Only one problem... his umm... libido is not that great. I hand breed my girls so I can tell when they are bred. (this is my 3rd season) Well, I took my dry yearling into him tonight and she did everything but jump on him! I mean she was definitely standing to be bred. He does all of the blubbering, grunting and then starts pushing her around, finally after about 15 minutes of this nonsense he begins to mount her, humps a couple of times then just slides off. You can tell he's not making penetration or ejaculation. FINALLY after about 8 or 9 of these frustrating attempts he finishes the job (so it seemed) and then seemed wiped out, kind of panting. It's not just with the yearling tonight. I've managed to get him to breed 3 does in the last week and it's the same story every time. Am I expecting too much for a 4 year old buck??

    I have the vet coming next Wednesday to check him out for me. She said she will bring her microscope and we will collect him and then check for semen quality. But now I'm worried because I happened to meet and speak with the small ruminant specialist at Tennessee State Univ. and she stated that she would NEVER electro ejaculate a buck because it can "ruin them". I asked her how she collected and she very frankly told me that she ejaculates her bucks... just reaches down there and does it. OK I need buck advice! :help2 I'm just concerned that it's going to be January and I'm not going to have any pregnant goats!

    Paranoid in Tennessee,
    Thanks guys!

    Arden Ward
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Trinity Rose Oberhasli
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Does he extend his penis?

    Did he actually breed the other does, penetrate, ejaculate? Did your yearling move her tail for him to penetrate her?

    Honestly by 4 a buck isn't going to waste alot of energy on a doe who moves away, doesn't lift her tail etc....but he will continue to try to persuade her to come into standing heat.

    Something I do to all my bucks as they breed their first does, is to put on a glove, run my fingers into the vagina after them and (scoop) out some semen, run it to the microscope and check to make sure they have swimmers.

    Your does are beautiful on your website, sometimes folks keep bucks in less than good condition then are shocked he doesn't breed. Lack of energy comes directly from not having enough energy sources...grain. Also if he is anemic.

    Before breeding season is just a thought away the buck should start gaining some weight if he is thin. If your minerals problems aren't taken care of in a good mineral your buck eats, think about bolusing him and using something like buck power from caprinesupply.com. Then fecal to make sure he isn't wormy or have cocci, bo-se the month before you are to use him...this way he has the semen you need, the energy he needs etc. Vicki

    Fecal sample your buck before you use him to make sure he is
     

  3. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    This old fairy tale of bucks not working once they have been electrically ejaculated really bugs me. We have had ours done this way and they still have bred afterwards and continue to breed. I know that we are not raising cattle but they did perfect the collection process first and have been collecting them this way for decades now with NO problems. Show me a person with a buck that was directly and immediately affected and I will then take some belief in it.
    We are having a similar issue with a buck that we used last year not being very aggressive this year and he has never been collected but if that would jump start his libido I am all for it.
    Mary
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    They also do have testosterone shots you can use. Vicki
     
  5. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    The animal was was taken off the market a while back. I know this because I wanted to use it on a baby buck a couple years ago.

    Perhaps you can get your vet to write a prescription for the human testosterone if that is the route you plan to take.

    Sara
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Thanks Sara we used it on Eric years back to get that last breeding season out of him. Vicki
     
  7. Haglerfarm

    Haglerfarm New Member

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    Yes, years ago I had a buck electro ejaculated. I had almost lost him to pneumonia and wanted to make sure I had him in the tank. He was a young buck and was intimidated by the man doing the collecting and the other older buck that was there. He would not work.
    This was at a bull stud, a very good one. At any rate it certainly did not hurt him. I used him for several more years as did the people who bought him later.

    On another note, I have had similar problems as Arden with a buck that I have. And a yearling that looks just terrible. these bucks were gotten in great shape before the does started coming into heavy heats. Of course the older bucks have lost weight, but still look OK. but, the yearling buck looks really bad. I have moved him into a separate pen with younger bucklings. Unfortunately he is next to the does now, rather than across the road. But, he was doing the same thing when he was across the road. All he does is beller and holler for the girls. He hardly eats. He has been wormed well and his eyelids are very dark pink. His rear pasterns are really down. I tried to get some Bo-Se as I am out. No vets in our area now carry it. I guess I will have to order it. but, I needed something now. I will be able to get some Selenium-E gel next week at convention, I am sure. But, can I give him some selenium pills and how many. I think the ones I have are 200 mcg. I also have some vit. E gels. He also has had fortified B-Complex and has a very good goat mineral available to him.
    Les
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    You are likely already giving him selenium via his minerals and grain mix if he is on it. Oral selenium simply doesn't work...it is either because it is degraded in the rumen or in conjunction with all the other defficencies and excess we have....Copper, Iron, E, B vitamins when the bucks aren't eating and ruminanting or a doe is ill, and remember there isn't enough E in the bo-se to treat the muscular destrophy part of selenium defficencies, and also :) bo-se at 1cc per 40 pounds is not treating defficency just bolstering...so I honestly don't think there is a dosage that is correct for oral selenium gels or pills.

    My yearling buck is also a rack of bones, he is soo tall and soo long and soo rutty and soo loving his new job! Vicki
     
  9. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    With everything that has been posted....I'd still spend my money wisely and buy a tub of buck power. Remove these bucks from sight and sound of does for about two weeks while you work on getting the buck power in them for a couple of weeks. Bo-Se will help, to some degree, but not like the buck power. I can give you an example of how well it worked.. but it's long winded, not SCIENTIFICALLY proven, just worked here. <shrug>

    There is something metabolically unbalanced in a buck that does not have enough libido to breed does. Either copper, parasites, or he wasn't prepared properly for breeding season.

    Sara, are you talking Winstrol-V? There's still some "floating" around...but & BIG BUT...I wouldn't use it without advice from a repro. professional. Testosterone is still available but again...wouldn't use it without advice from a professional...you can do more harm than good.
    JMO
    Kaye
     
  10. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    No idea what it was called. :) All I know is that I tried several vets here in Minnesota, a friends vet in Michigan and also 2 vets in California. All said it was no longer available. Of course, testosterone was available for humans but like you said, I was concerned it would cause more harm than good. I opted to wait for the buck to mature... which he did (all on his own!).

    Sara
     
  11. wardarden

    wardarden New Member

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    Hi Vicki, thanks for writing.. Yes, the best I can tell his penis is partially extended when he mounts,humps and then just slides off. I really think that he (after several attempts) has penetrated and ejaculated. I watch for the bucks head to kindof jerk up and the doe to hunch down her back end. Right?? When I see that I will usually take the doe out of the pen and back with the other does.

    Thanks you for looking at my girls. Unfortunately my web page is in sad need of work. His conditioning still seems to be pretty good (coat, weight, etc) About the anemic part... Do you think if I had the vet draw blood and do a workup that might show me something?

    Do you think if I had the vet draw blood and do a workup that might show me something?



    OK this is a big thing for me. It sounds like the ones of you that have had to electro collect a buck in the past have not had bad experiences. One question on this... does it hurt him?? It looks like I am going to have to isolate the problem... is his semen of good quality? If yes, then what can I do to fix his libido if anything. He is still in pretty good condition physically, he eats reasonably well. Another question here.... what is a bucks "prime' breeding years? Around what age would you expect to start having some breeding issues with a buck?

    THANKS YOU GUYS!

    Hope you are getting everyone bred,

    Arden
     
  12. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Yes you are right on the jerking back of the head...he should fully extend his penis out of his sheath.

    Yes perhaps a blood workup may help, perhaps if you could get the actual copy of the test and post it we could compare it with Goat Medicine.

    I have never had a buck settle a doe after his 10th Birthday, one was 9, they act like they are doing everything right, their simply was no viable semen (broken tails, headless, swimming in circles), in one buck no semen, just ejaculate. So your bucks problem has nothing to do with age. So you would never after being a yearling and can reach everyone, should you ever have breeding issues with performance, only in fertility as they become old. vicki
     
  13. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    Arden,
    I am sure there is some sort of sensation to the buck during the actual electroejaculation. They will stiffen and let a small cry during the procedure. Similar to when you would give a shot of LA200. But every buck we have done has returned to the pen and resumed acting like a buck. So I don't think it is locked into their long term memory.
    There are some factors that will crop up with performance that come on that has nothing to do with age. We had a 6 year old that developed a cancerous growth on the end of his sheath that prevented him from extending. Heat stress will affect semen quality as well in any age of buck. Injury to the testes can also affect performance and can happen at any time.
    As for what a bucks prime breeding years; I think if you ask them, as long as they are alive they will want to breed. But, every individual is different.
    It is a good idea to clip the underside of your bucks before each breeding season and to check things out for any obvious problems.
    Tim
     
  14. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    :lol Yes, there is pain associated with electroejaculation. It's either electrical (most used for bulls are run on a converter that hooks to the battery of a truck) or battery charged. It inserts into the rectum...now you figure it out. :really
    Yes, the caprine size is a LOT less voltage than the bull's.
    Kaye