UPDATE- wobbly ND doe- meningeal worm?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by birdiegirl, May 7, 2008.

  1. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Hi, I am having some problems with a Nigerian Dwarf doe. 1yr old, FF, about 2 weeks fresh. Delivered 2 kids which I pulled to bottle-feed, I have been milking her twice daily. Gives approx 1 quart daily. Wormed post-kidding with Quest.

    The past 2 days, I noticed that she seems ataxic/wobbly in her hindquarters. She is slow to place her left hind hoof- she drags it slightly, but does eventually place it. When she walks, her body is not straight- her spine appears to bend in an arc. When I walked out with the goats to browse 2 days ago, she actually fell twice, and had difficulty righting herself. Her appetite is good and she is alert.

    I went to temp her yesterday, but my digital thermometer was not working- and I usually have 2-3 here at any given time.....grr.

    She was a bit of a wild thing to train to the milkstand, a few times we struggled with her to get her up there, and she would kick for the first few days. I don't recall being rough enough as to injure her.......? Could she have a disc/nerve problem which is affecting her back leg?

    (I do not know whether this is pertinent info, but I have been dealing with another sick ND doe also the past 2 days. She went off her feed, had no milk, and was scouring- I treated her with SQ fluids, pepto-bismol and CMPK inj- she was back to normal this morning)

    Additional info: These goats are fed a 16oz scoop of barley with a top dreesing of calf-manna and a few alfalfa pellets on the milkstand. They are out all day on forest/browse, and I feed and evening meal of alfalfa pellets. The ND goats usually do not get the whole scoop of feed while on the stand, usually my boyfriend milks them and he is a fast milker. I am slower, however, and they consume more of the feed when I am milking.

    Does anyone have any ideas?

    Donna
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Lack of calcium these does aren't getting enough in my opinion. they should have more alfalfa pellets I think Give her a fortified BCOMPLEX shot and cmpk and then up their alfalfa mine don't get alfalfa pellets on the milk stand they get oats/boss and then alfalfa pellets to eat afterwards. both night and day. only reason to give alfalfa pellets on the milk stand is to slow down eating of grain
     

  3. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Sondra,
    I only put the alfalfa pellets in the grain on the milkstand in order to slow their eating- I am slow milking their tiny FF teats.
    They do get alfalfa pellets in the evening in a free-choice pellet feeder- 10 goats are getting approx 1 1/2 pounds each in the bulk feeder- I have been adding more slowly, but they are leaving pellets now at that amount.
    I only have the regular B-complex- is that okay to give? I will give her the CMPK.
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    yes that will be ok but I would start giving them alfalfa pellets in the morning also.
     
  5. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Well, I will do that. The feeder still has pellets from last night's feeding....I guess I need to sweep them out in the morning and offer fresh pellets and see if that makes a difference.
    Luckily, I have not seen a problem in the Lamanchas and the Nubian. i would have thought that they'd have issues first, if there was a calcium deficiency, since they produce so much more milk.
     
  6. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Donna it could be other issues but would try the cmpk and B complex first
     
  7. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Do you live in area where there is whitetail deer? Do you know about meningeal worms? This is something to consider. Because mini's are so much smaller they have an increased chance of ingesting meningeal larvae.

    Calcium gluconate is easy to find in feed stores and works as a oral drench. It's not as good as cmpk but it will work in a pinch. I suppose, if you give the calcium and the symptoms disappear then it is a calcium issue. You can head off the serious milk fever problems by giving oral drenches as soon as you can, so I don't know if I would wait to see if they will eat the pellets.

    Magnesium def is also something that happens when the goats have a lot of fresh foods to eat. We had this one year when we were raising pasture fed goats and the signs are similar to calcium def, but with an increase of nervous behavior and "bug eyes."

    Anyway, I hope this is as simple as calcium deficiency. I would have though the heavier producing does would have shown it first.
     
  8. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Jo,
    We live in a heavily forested area, we do have deer (keeps our freezer full all year), although I think the LGDs keep the deer out of the immediate area.

    My goats don't seem to show symptoms of magnesium deficiency- they are not overly nervous nor are they bug-eyed. Quite the opposite, they were brought here crazy wild and through the process of assisted kidding and daily milking, they have become quite calm and friendly.

    The goat with the scours recovered well with pepto and CMPK. I have given the ataxic doe SQ CMPK and am watching her closely.

    Do I repeat SQ injections twice daily as needed? Since she is a small goat, I did not a full doese for a standard size goat- I gave 20cc SQ. Is that enough for now?

    And, once they recover (if this is calc. deficiency- can I resume milking, or is it better to dry them up for the season?) Not that they give all that much milk, but the process of milking has really turned them into nice goats and I want them to remain friendly.
     
  9. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    if they recover then yes resume milking
     
  10. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    I would do the whole gamit. Go through your hay and your feeders, clean everything and air everything out...you are looking for mold. Never keep anything in feed store sacks, always store your feed in barrells, and never put feed sacks on cement. Listerosis symptoms, polio symptoms and milk fever sypmtoms but they would be down, no milk with subtemp all can cause a doe to make tracks as she walks with her back leg.

    Menengial worm time for us is fall, but if you have alot of deer or just purchased new grass hay than it is plausable that you just brought this in, I know our case was new hay we purchased years back. But if it's older hay I would look for mold.

    If they have had a feed change recently than I would get thiamin from the vet or fortified B complex...ditch that plain b complex and never buy it again it doesn't have enough of anything in it to help...and treat the does for polio. Vicki
     
  11. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    This time of year, the goats rarely touch hay, as they are out all day on browse. Even if I offer it in the evening. So, I have not offered any lately.
    Possibly a different brand of alfalfa pellets? I purchased a few bags from a different feed store on the way home from work last week, it looked and smelled okay, the girls eat it okay, but maybe it was the problem? Although, I'd think that more of my goats would be having a problem.
    Feed is stored in the bag, but kept inside a wooden cabin with a wood floor, water proof. My barley is kept in metal trash cans. Will work on getting more trashcans/barrels.

    I have a bottle of thiamine waiting for me at the vet's office 35 miles from here- he ordered it for me months ago, just to have on hand.....like a dummy I kept putting off picking it up, as I have to stop for it in the morning after a long overnight shift and I am usually tired......well. Guess I should've picked it up sooner. I will just have to drive into Longview tomorrow if the goats are not improving.
     
  12. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Shame on me for not making sure I had the thiamine on hand. I will have to make the 35 mile drive tomorrow to pick it up; the vet's office is only open until noon.
    Until then, I gave both does a large dose of reg B-complex. They weigh about 60 pounds each, so I gave them each 20ccs SQ- is that dose okay? I will follow up and dose them again this evening, as well as repeating the CMPK.
    Should I give antibiotics as well? I have pen-G on hand.
     
  13. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    that is way too much B Complex in my opinion and no wouldn't give them more tonight
     
  14. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Sondra,
    I dosed the goats according to this thread:
    https://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,83.0.html

    Judging the goats at 60 pounds each, they would get 272mg thiamine. My bottle of B-vitamins contains 12.5mg/ml thiamine, which comes out to be roughly 20cc.

    Hopefully my math is correct. If I messed up, let me know.

    Donna
     
  15. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Well I would wait now until you get the B1
    and my reasoning on this is you don't want to over do the B12 and affect the kidneys.
     
  16. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Okay, I am going early tomorrow to pick up the B1.
     
  17. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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  18. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Oh good! So, if it says to give every 6 hours, am I okay to give another dose tonight? I had planned on giving a dose around midnight, then first thing in the morning before I head off to town.
     
  19. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    well according to Kaye go ahead and give it tonight but then I would get the B1 and give it to her in the morning. Just depends on when you get the B1
     
  20. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Re: Advice needed- wobbly ND doe

    Oh no- I am wondering if it is meningeal worm after all- I am on another site reading, and I read that one of the symptoms of deer worm is rubbing and itching- I noticed yesterday and today that the doe with the dragging leg is rubbing herself on everything. She's been doing this all afternoon.

    What do I need to do now-