Unthrifty Doe

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by BlueHeronFarm, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. BlueHeronFarm

    BlueHeronFarm New Member

    218
    0
    0
    I need whatever help I can get.

    We have a 10 month old doeling who has stopped growing well.
    She is tall, but really scrawny and I think has even lost some weight over the last month, give or take. This is going to sound bad, but we didn't really notice until she looked bad. We thought she was just slow in filling out, but now it's obvious there is a problem.

    She has had tapeworms and I think we may never have really gotten the problem solved. We just finished a four day course of Valbazen today and her appetite was bad and she has been really "zoned out" for much of today. We gave her B vitamins and probios, but she didn't eat much at all today. No feed, just some grass in the field.

    In addition to this, I think she may have been bred and have aborted the last time we gave her Valbazen.
    We allowed her to be with the buck when she was still growing OK. (December)
    She had a lot of discharge for a few days after that - and has had a messy tail since then.

    Fecal showed tapes last week, nothing else - that's why we did Valbazen again.
    Her poos are fine- berries - but the tail is messy in the way it would be with scours.
    Temp is normal.

    We are really worried now. Any ideas/help would be appreciated.
     
  2. BlueHeronFarm

    BlueHeronFarm New Member

    218
    0
    0
    Read some other thread that said tapes could lead to entero. ??
    We'll try antitox since it can't hurt. Would still like to hear other ideas..
    Just weight taped her at 87 pounds ... so small for 10 months. :(
     

  3. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

    398
    0
    0
    I personally would get some clovite and feed her separately. Clovite is a supplement you can get thru Jeffers. I gave it to my cow when we got her and it helped her alot (Jersey) she was so thin and it really turned her around. Also is she in with older does that may be pushing her away from food, she might not be getting enough. Also when I worn I worm and wait 10 days and then do it again, then wait 10 days and check and if any are seen worm again. I hope she will start eating again maybe her tummy is upset from all the wormer. Good Luck
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    0
    0
    did you ck her temp?? I would also give her a shot of BoSE and a copper bolus keep up the probios
     
  5. BlueHeronFarm

    BlueHeronFarm New Member

    218
    0
    0
    Yes - temp is normal - and we did give Bo/Se last week - sorry-- I forgot to mention that.
    I've also been giving Vitamin E capsules, orally, this past week.
    She was copper bolused in September -- I thought we'd re-bolus after the yearlings kid in April.
    She shares a pen with only other 10 month - yearlings, but she is getting pushed out of the feed lately by the year olds who are bred and hungry. She gives up and goes to eat hay instead.
    I will see if I can find the supplement.

    Gosh, I just feel so bad. Her sister is growing SO well. These two were the last born but the sister is the largest of last year's crop. She just looks pathetic now since the bred girls are having their growth spurts.
     
  6. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    0
    0
    can you separated her out to feed her?? I have one that is basically the same way and she is now moved with lesser does and in the next week will go in a pen with just a 3 mo old so she can eat and be the boss.
     
  7. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    1
    0
    Please....less is more, not more is better. A rant follows, not at you...but just in how not to use internet information without knowing why you are doing it.

    Valbazen contains a flukecide, using it for 4 days in a row...you will be lucky if it didn't kill her liver. Yes you could use Safeguard/Pancur for 4 days in a row for tapes because they are white wormers that get tapes but they don't contain a flukicide, and honestly are soo benign they don't do much of anything anyway. Does it take 4 days of worming with it to get tapeworm? No body knows because it's just internet nonsense that gets passed around lists as gospel. Use it once and fecal, use it two days and fecal, use it three days and fecal...really do you think somebody used it for 4 days in a row and fecaled and then shared this information because it worked?

    Cool weather worms eat your does alive this time of year. Warm weather worms suck blood. So you are likely dealing with a heavy parastie load of eating mama's that do not lay eggs in this weather. So no eggs mean no or few eggs on fecal, just loss of condition. Did the Valbazen help with this worm? Probably. But now you will have to rebuild her rumen and hopefully she won't have shut downs of major organs. It's lucky that she did abort, if she tests positive for pregnancy next month I would abort her, let her rest until fall.

    I would give her activated charcoal 500 grams. Subq fluids with glucose. Keep her out of the sunshine. Lower the quality of her grain or move her to only grass hay. In a very thin doe you can fell the liver swelling under her last rib, goats don't go jaundice. I hope she pulls through for you, but if she does go into liver failure or starts with neurological problems from this, I would put her down, the prognosis back to 100% isn't good. And it's because I have done this to one of my own goats that I know this.

    Always call someone before guessing on meds, and wormers are meds. Vicki
     
  8. BlueHeronFarm

    BlueHeronFarm New Member

    218
    0
    0
    I could swear I read NUMEROUS times that the Valbazen was three days....and that's why I thought it hadn't worked before. Because the other times we had treated her we did it with just one dose. The fourth day was our own mistake on top of that.

    I guess my other , big mistake was thinking Valbazen was a white wormer...I did not understand about the flukicide.
    She looks OK this morning. No swelling under the ribs. No worse than yesterday.

    We'll keep an eye on her today. Feed her alfalfa and probios and hay only and feed her separately. Thank you, Vicki. I am taking it for exactly what it is - good advice after a hard lesson learned.
     
  9. BlueHeronFarm

    BlueHeronFarm New Member

    218
    0
    0
    I think my second big misunderstanding is when people say "3 days of X wormer" they mean at 10 day intervals? I am trying hard to dissect here - that's the best I can come up with.

    The hard truth is that this goat should be a cull. All of the other goats that had tapes overcame them and thrived. She is not as strong. Ultimately - for better herd health - the chronically sickly ones should not be saved. But of course we discard notions of natural selection when we form attachments. Since we haven't had to cull yet this is still very hard for me.

    I guess the second hard truth is that we really messed up here. We may have hastened the culling process.

    Thanks for letting me brain dump here. It is a bit overwhelming right now.
     
  10. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

    1,837
    0
    0
    Here's another thought for you....a uterine infection in a young doe can cause unthriftyness. You did say you thought this doe had aborted.? A slow *simmering* infection can cause doelings to not grow out well, not breed their first year and then lead to a barren doe the next breeding season. The *messy* tail is causing my red flags and bells to go off in brain.
    Kaye
     
  11. BlueHeronFarm

    BlueHeronFarm New Member

    218
    0
    0
    I had thought of that. Would she not have a fever with a uterine infection? There is also no bad smell to the discharge.

    Would I flush her or treat with injectible antibiotics or both if it is a uterine infection? Would a vet culture the discharge to see if that is what is happening?
     
  12. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

    1,837
    0
    0
    No, she wouldn't have a high temp that you would notice. Doe I'm working, since Nov. (NOT MINE!), has had a 2yr. old infection and temp was normal.

    Problem with that is...she needs to be in heat (open cervix) or have someone really good with an appex sheath to get into the uterus or at least far enough into the rings to put the flush in, this time of year. A vaginal flush does absolutely no good.

    A culture would be good IF the vet knew they had to get to the cervical opening for an accurate swab. Horse vets are really good at this...but it takes a speculum in a goat to get a culture. I've done some of my own with mare swabs and speculums and got really good results.
    Kaye