Tums...during pregnacy for calcium...

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Faithful Crown Nubians, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. I think I am correct in my thinking but want to double check...

    Do tums contain enough calcium to even be worth feeding to pregnant does???

    NOTE- I am NOT asking b/c I want to feed my goats this, I feed my goats good quality alfalfa hay so I have no reason for wanting to add more calcium to their diet...I am asking b/c someone else asked about it and I thought I read somewhere that it was basically pointless to do...so I just want to double check on that...

    Thanks :)
     
  2. Bernice

    Bernice New Member

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    Hi Amy,

    I'll never forget the very first time I saw someone giving their goats Tums at a goat show back about 10 yrs or so ago. :really The person was and still is an established top Alpine breeder. The only thing I could figure was that the goats had indigestion! :yeahthat So I asked her why, she explained because they needed calcium. Hmmmmm..... :/
     

  3. pokyone42

    pokyone42 New Member

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    Well, this is just me. Our does LOVE TUMS for the most part, and so.. for the last two weeks of pregnancy, I offer each doe a few each day......Most of them LOVE them. A few do not....I think that it cannot hurt them.....they are seen as a treat by most......:)
     
  4. buckrun

    buckrun New Member

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    Wouldn't you need to be concerned with preventing the mobilization of their own calcium reserves if you give them too much oral calcium? I guess I was assuming everyone is feeding alfalfa. But maybe if you are not doing that daily then it would not be a problem. I have calcium carbonate out free choice and they never go near it so what is in tums that is enticing? Are they flavored?
    Lee
     
  5. hsmomof4

    hsmomof4 New Member

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    Flavored and sweet to boot.
     
  6. I had read somewhere, LONG time ago, so I can't remember where I read it, that there wasn't enough calcuim in them to do much good...

    is that true? or not??
     
  7. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I'll give my girls a calcium tablet in a handful of grain when they are in late pregnancy as a boost, but in a crisis, such as hypocalcemia I give a shot of Norcalciphos. I think what you heard is that Tums aren't adequate for milk fever and that is correct. They need injectable calcium.
     
  8. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    But then they dont get anything useful from animal crackers either yet my goats get them...a nice treat and if it has extra calcium to boot, why not? To each their own treat...
     
  9. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    like LeeAnne a few as a treat isn't going to hurt but to use Tums as a supplement for calcium NO they wouldn't get enough in a whole bottle to counter act hypocalcemia
     
  10. ah, that's what I thought but wanted to make sure I was correct in my thinking... :) Thankyou! :)
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I learned a long time ago not to take your uddered does home from the show completely empty, also not to milk a just fresh doe all the way out, leaving her some calcium in each scenario for her to use since she is in soo much stress. A very well known Texas Nubian, now boer breeder told me this under no uncertain terms, she was our director for years :) and I still do both of these :) I did stop giving molasses water to my does when they kidded...but some old habits die hard. Vicki
     
  12. LOL I have never given molasses water to my goats after kidding. :)
     
  13. Hollybrook

    Hollybrook New Member

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    I read my labels Calcium is omnipresent in goat feed/alfalfa if you've had/worry about milk fever I'd look at my intake of Vit D it is essential for the absorption of Calcium. You can feed your goats Tums till your blue in the face but if their not getting Vit D it's going to be pee'd out or deposited in kidneys. Best source of Vit D? Look to the sky sunshine! has anyone noted a correlation of hairy goats vs short haired or a bout of cloudy weather and hypocalemia just wondering? It is a proven fact women living further from equator have higher incidence of osteoporosis.

    Dave
     
  14. buckrun

    buckrun New Member

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    Dave there is a lot more involved in calcium absorption in a ruminant than calcium intake and sunshine.
    The level of magnesium is important which is why green stuff is so vital. For feed rations the form of calcium is very important as some are more readily available and some just pass on thru. Most of it is taken in while in the rumen and a lesser amt in intestines so all that has to be functioning correctly at the right PH. The form the calcium is in determines how much of it gets thru the epithelium. This is one reason sweet feeds are so hard on ruminants (I wish I was a chemist) the way the calcium breaks down and is transported in the rumen is greatly affected by sugars being present. There are lots of articles on calcium utilization by ruminants online.
    Just be aware that even tho they are eating calcium it may not be transported to where it is needed.
    Lee
     
  15. LLB101

    LLB101 New Member

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    Lee - do the sugars increase or decrease the absorption?

    Vicki - why did you stop with the molasses water after kidding and did you replace it with another booster drink or just nothing?
     
  16. buckrun

    buckrun New Member

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    There are benefits in having the right amt of sugars in the rumen. It helps the microbes reproduce just by providing more energy for them and also helps with use of some forms of nitrogen but... feeding sugar results in the production of lactic acid in the rumen and that causes a drop in rumen pH. Acidic goats will have reduced fiber digestion and much of your expensive hay will pass out undigested. Sugars are mainly added as a way to use agricultural waste products and more is not better. There are many functions of the rumen that simply shut down at the incorrect PH and sugar is one of the primary reasons this occurs.

    I cannot find it now of course but I once had a chart that showed that an increase in sugar to a certain point helped with fat levels in milk but only up to a certain point at which it rapidly dropped off due to sugar not being used to nurture microbes and enhance fermentation -excess then just lowered PH. The advisable level of sugars in the rations profiled was found to be optimum at about 4 to 8 percent added sugar and once over that level declines in production and feed conversion began. Many pelleted feeds are as much as 20 percent. This does not take into consideration the sugar levels of the other components of the feeds and if you are using corn or soy you are adding to the sugar levels quite a bit. Even alfalfa richly grown can have a sugar content nearing 10 percent. This is one reason that altho our animals love molasses we should restrict pouring too much around randomly.
    and etc and on and on sorry....

    Lee
     
  17. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I never saw any benefit between molasses water and just a bucket full of plain hot water. Managed correctly there shouldn't be this big huge drain on a doe kidding out. And if she needs energy waiting for it to be processed orally other than with something like propolyn glycol is kind of futile if you ask me. Vicki
     
  18. LLB101

    LLB101 New Member

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    my two that kidded her last year (my firsts, twins & FF triplets 3.6-4.8 lbs ea) sure didn't seem to be struggling in any way right after kidding. I did offer them not a bucket, but a smaller amount, of a calcium/multi-mineral liquid in water with a tiny amount of molasses and they drank only half of it.

    The funniest thing was that these goats had come from a farm where they got only alfalfa hay, and they'd always refused any kind of fruit that everyone else said their goats eat. Suddenly inbetween the first and second kids coming out, the triplet kidder doe decides she wants a bite of the banana I'm eating while assisting her. She gobbled down 1/3 of the banana until I decided that was enough for a new diet addition!

    She's the Minority Leader in this herd, different from second in the ranks, she's the leader of her relatives, and after that her gang all started following her in eating banana peels, apples, carrots, pumpkin etc. The followers of the Herd Queen have been slower to come around but also now will eat fruit after watching the other group. There's nothing like someone else eating something to make a goat want it, even if they'd just refused it themselves! LOL

    Back on topic, these links are interesting for calcium content of veggies and feedstocks:
    http://carrotcafe.com/f/caforage.html
    http://carrotcafe.com/f/calevel.html