terrible udder problem on a friends doe

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by [email protected], May 10, 2008.

  1. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    I hope that posting this is going to be o.k. I'm trying to get my friend to join so she will be able to talk about this herself.) Meanwhile...

    This is on a friends doe. I just got back from seeing this and have never seen it before myself.
    Her doe kidded on sunday, and they noticed this problem happening on Tuesday. What I saw was this: nearly her entire teat has hardened and
    become like a huge scab. Some of this is starting to break open. The
    tissue is hard. She has another hardened area up where the udder divides. (forget what that is called.) This side of her udder is swollen and is hanging lower. The milk coming from this side appears to be normal, no blood or clots.

    On tuesday or wednesday they took the animal into the vets up at the university and the vets said they didn't know what it was. (there are vets there who can't recognize the nose on their own face, apparently.) But the vets said it couldn't be mastitis because the cmt was clear. :mad So they basically did nothing for them, besides say that they are running the mastitis culture.

    What are your thoughts? What's the treatment protocol for this?
    I especially want to make sure they get the right antibiotic information for her.

    The doe has kids nursing on her. The doe is recovering in health and is a little thin, but that might be connected to this too. This doe is a pet to two sweet girls.

    I have a picture I'm going to download.

    Does anyone recognise these symptoms? I wonder if it's gangrene mastititis?
     
  2. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    Here are the udder pictures: [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Sorry for the size of these pictures. I'm having trouble re-sizing them.
     

  3. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    UM I would be afraid of gangrene mastitis by the looks of it but am no expert I also would pull those kids off her and milk her out by hand This has to hurt when they nurse.
     
  4. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    I'm afraid of gangrene myself. But I haven't seen it before.

    Do you know if Vicki's online?
     
  5. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    No she isn't her birthday (yesterday) is party time today, but if you click on Home at the top then go to bottom of page you can see who is online.
     
  6. Little Moon

    Little Moon New Member

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    OMG! I thought it was bad when I looked at your photos Jo, but the ones from the Saanendoah site are horrifying. I hope you are able to help this doe, this must be extremely painful for her. Hugs and good luck.

    ~Anne
     
  7. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    The doe was sensitive to touch, but not in terrible pain. No fever either. They are milking the animal twice per day.
     
  8. Shykid Acres

    Shykid Acres Guest

    AHHH! That Saanendoah site is very informative but those pictures are....horrid! Yicks! I REALLY hope this is not your doe's problem. :(
     
  9. old dominion

    old dominion New Member

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    This is what I know about gangrene mastitis

    The doe may become very ill and need to be treated with high does of antibiotic.

    The discolored area is initially very cold. This is the flesh dying from the toxins being released.

    The one I saw had blood in the milk and milking was discontinued.

    If it is GM, and you get the doe over the sickness, the udder (darkened portion) will dry up and fall off.

    What is left (the other half) can continue to be productive.

    I know of three people who have kept does after GM, they have gone to kid, milk, and care for their young with no ill effects to their herd.

    I have no idea of what different types of bacteria can cause GM so I can't say what is the best protocol for your herd. If it is GM your friend will need to make that decision.

    Lastly, let me say I can't determine that GM is the problems in the photos.

    Could something have stepped on her udder?
     
  10. Ashley

    Ashley Active Member

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    That looks EXACTLY like what my grandpa's doe did. I mean if you told me it was the same goat I would believe you! When she freshened she was too full and her teats were so inflamed she wouldn't let her baby nurse. One side cleared up quickly. But the other we had to use a small catheter to put up in the teat to empty it, as milking was too painful. It scabbed exactly like this and it later fell off and the skin underneath was good. That side was never the same though and didn't milk near as much as the other.
     
  11. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    pm Vicki or Kaye to please look at this
     
  12. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    You have to have staph aureous in the udder for it to have malignant edema like this. I have never seen an udder with just the sides of it like this, it usually is a large section that always includes the teat, the side goes blue, then dries to leather and falls off. The doe either dies if it goes systemic or from secondary infection or other than bloody milk she is fine after the udder sloughs. It's painful of course.

    Tetracycline is the drug of choice. Know that staph auroeus is so contatigous that it is highly unlikely it is not in another doe. Quaranteen this doe, and wear gloves. Use chlorhexiderm to keep this udder clean without drying it out and causing more problems. Burn everything used to treat this udder.

    This is a form of black leg, gas gangreen and the herd now needs to be moved to covexin 8 so this clostridium can be vaccinated for.

    Lysigin is for staph aureous and the whole herd should become a vaccinated herd. Everyone including this doe 5cc then 5cc in 21 days. Virgin does should get their series of 2 shots before they are bred then everyone boostered with one shot from that point on (except new virgin doelings each year) before kidding.

    Try to get her to not use a bunch of stuff on this udder, chlorhexideen from the vet is strong, the one in jeffers is only 2%. Put it into a spary bottle and keep the udder clean with it, and then spray it again to keep the area soft.

    Daires will keep does who they have treated for ecoli, pseudnomas, subclinical staph, etc...but they do not keep does who get staph arueous because of this. And even once her udder sloughs she can still carry staph aureous in the other side, so culture her...or especially if this doe doesn't loose her teat on this side making her milkable still, test her. Vicki
     
  13. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    So the owners have a doeling and a wether nursing on the doe. I have told them they need to take the kids off, but considering this info I should also tell them to vaccinate the kids with covexin and the lysigign. Should they use the vaccines on the doe and her companion wether?

    The goats are pets and the owners are very attached so it would be very hard for them to put the animal down. I know they will want to treat the doe.

    Thanks Vicki, for your help. We appreciate it.
     
  14. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    Ack, you answered the vaccine questions already. I should learn to read better. Is tetracycline LA200? Could they be using that on the doe now? Or is there an RX that is better for her?
     
  15. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    LA200 is yes tetracycline however the carrier of LA200 stings like the dickens so get an off brand to use so as not to burn every shot.
     
  16. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

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    Like Sondra said, it stings so I use BioMycin as it has a buffer that makes it stingless. and its not to much more for it either. Especuially if you have to do lots of shots with it.
     
  17. BetsyMcNerney

    BetsyMcNerney Guest

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    Hi -- I'm the owner of the doe with the udder/teat problem. Our first vet at the Univ. of Minn. tested our doe for mastitis with the CMT last Thursday and did a second milk culture in their lab over the weekend. Both tests were negative. Yesterday I took her to a second vet recommended by Jo. This vet seemed much more familiar with goats -- partly because of his work on dairy cows and his own herd of 70 sheep, he has an appreciation for goats as having some of the qualities of each but with their own unique characteristics.

    He threaded a thin metal instrument (which probably has a name I'm not familiar with) up her teat and determined that the main duct was not being compromised (shifted aside) by the swelling and scar tissue. He said the problem was not mastitis (I had shown him the photos of gangrene mastitis) but rather an external injury or reaction to a natural chemical in the environment, like an insect bite. I think someone on this forum had asked whether her teat had been stepped on -- perhaps by the wether?

    He recommended we treat what he called an "inflammation" with hot packs (washcloths soaked in hot water) 3 - 4 times a day to increase the blood flow to the affected area and bring down the swelling. We are also continuing to milk out that side. He encouraged us to let the kids nurse on that teat but the doe prefers not. I had asked about using an antibiotic for what I had been thinking was a very serious infection, but he said we ought to try the hot packs and see how they worked before using penicillin, which would be his drug of choice.

    He didn't seem particularly alarmed at her condition -- normal temperature, eating well, nursing, with two healthy looking kids. (She's thinner than I'd like, but with Jo's help we're trying to build her up with better hay and more grain and a few extras to build her immune system -- probably a difficult thing to do during the last part of pregnancy and especially now while she's nursing.) Even before we began using hot packs we had noticed that the swelling and discoloration looked less severe, although the teat does have a leathery feel.

    I'm a far less knowledeable and experienced goat owner than probably all of you, so I don't know what to think between the mild recommendations of the two vets and your serious concerns and my own worries that we aren't doing enough. How do you determine whether there is staph aureous in the udder? Purely by observation? Or is there a test for it? Or do we just go ahead and treat for it because that's what it looks lilke?

    Another (related?) concern: this morning when I went down to feed and milk her I noticed that she had a small, hardened gob of dried blood stuck to the underside of her tail. It looked like it had come from her vaginal opening. Would this be a last bit of placenta being expelled (it's now nine days since she kidded) or a sign of something more serious going on? After I cleaned her up, everything looked normal under the tail -- no more bleeding, no gashes. She was wormed with Valbazon on Thursday - would that have anything to do with it?
     
  18. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    1st don't worry abt the tail end of her they can pass blood for a couple weeks. and if the UN tested for the mastitis so thouraly then I would think the 2nd vet's protocal would be what I would take. I would be giving her mass amount of Vit C/ some B Complex and BOSE use the cloradecitine (sp) wash on her udder to keep away any possible infection coming on. and use those warm compresses 3 and 4 times a day. Dry it good afterwards./