Sweet Doe Needs Help - Please

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by WildflowerFarm, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. WildflowerFarm

    WildflowerFarm New Member

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    I have a 2 year old Oberhasli doe who has vaginal bleeding and I have no idea what the problem could be in this otherwise healthy happy goat. It would be wonderful to have any feedback or ideas so I know how to help this sweet girl.

    Here are some pieces of the puzzle:

    She last kidded in the spring of 2012.

    She is one of two does we brought home April 1 of this year. They lived together at their old home. They are our only 2 goats.

    We have no bucks.

    About a month ago in May she was doing a lot of tail wagging. Even though that is out of season, it appeared she was in heat.

    (11 days ago) We were prompted to take her to the vet the morning she got super skinny overnight. She went from looking healthy to showing her ribs and scaring us with her thinness. And she was only eating about half her food ration.

    I took her to the vet with urine and fecal samples. The vet said she had no worms and there were some (white and red, I think) blood cells in her urine. He said it could be a UTI and prescribed Excenel for 5 days (2 cc per day). A week or two prior to the bleeding she would occasionally have some leaking mucous (it did not appear to be urine) on the milk stand. She may have leaked other times, but it was on the milkstand that we noticed it.

    Temperature was not elevated.

    On the last couple days of her 5 doses we did not notice any red blood, only brown dried blood. The vet said she could just be clearing out still.

    It has now been 6 days since her last dose. Well this morning she had another drop of red blood right at the vaginal opening.

    Since beginning the antibiotic she has had no more dripping. So that seems like an improvement, but the continued bleeding is a concern. Since the antibiotics her appetite has returned and she is still thin but not scary thin. She continues to be her usually happy self.

    Thank you in advance for any help! This is my first time to post so please forgive anything I neglected to include. (It looks like there are lots of options and tags that I do not know how to use.)
     
  2. FaithNJoyOberhasli

    FaithNJoyOberhasli New Member

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    Hi, Jonna!

    :biggrin

    :welcome

    I'm glad you made your way here, as you know I've already given you all my ideas, and it still hasn't cleared up. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will have some solutions. You're definitely in the right place. :)

    You do need to add at least your first name to your signature. Location and breed are already there--good for you! I love your farm name!
     

  3. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    No clue about the leaking. I have one of those here, as well. Just came from the vet and he is stumped, as well. It left my doe with severe dermatitis from the leakage. Otherwise, my doe is acting normal.

    Try adding some fat, slowly, to her diet. BOSS or rice bran pellets or top dress feed with some oil.

    Have you thought of testing for Johnnes?
     
  4. fmg

    fmg New Member

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    Could she have had exposure to a buck at her previous place, about 5 months prior to now? Some of those things make me think of labor symptoms. Have you looked around her pen to see if you might find any evidence of her aborting (there may not be any even if she did)? She could also have a UTI that is resistant to the antibiotic that was used. It is possible to have a culture done on urine, but I'm not sure what the cost would be, and it might be hard to get a sterile sample from a goat (for dogs usually the sample is collected with a syringe and needle through the abdomen, or sometimes via urinary catheter).
     
  5. WildflowerFarm

    WildflowerFarm New Member

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    No she was not with a buck. She was expected to go into heat in January, but did not.

    She was treated for a UTI; the vet said that a UTI is a possibility.

    What can lead to vaginal bleeding? Just the bladder or uterus?

    Would Excenel kick a UTI?

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  6. FaithNJoyOberhasli

    FaithNJoyOberhasli New Member

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    Bumping...

    Nope, I'm about 99.9% sure her last heat was 12/14-15, and there was no buck exposure, because I planned to breed her for June kids. She was tested (negative) for Johne's in March or April, just so we'd "know that we knew".

    We're all stumped, including their vet. Any more ideas? Anyone??

    :thankyou2
     
  7. swgoats

    swgoats Active Member

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    Maybe her hormones are off?
     
  8. FaithNJoyOberhasli

    FaithNJoyOberhasli New Member

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    Hmmmm...are you thinking like a cystic ovary thing? What are the symptoms?

    Her first heat was in September last year (she was the first of the girls to cycle) and were strong and on time every month through December. I can usually count on a January from everyone, and usually a February (though that makes me nervous...), but she didn't go in January, so didn't get bred this year, but she has milked through and is still between 4-5 lbs a day as a yearling (now 2-y-o) FF. Her peak wasn't knock-your-socks-off, but she's kept it up for over a year, even with moving to her new home.

    I'm learning about CIDRs as a possibility for things like this in the future, but it has been neat to see how long she can go...

    Thanks!
     
  9. WildflowerFarm

    WildflowerFarm New Member

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    I have no idea about goat hormones or how that would relate to her bleeding. Please explain what you are thinking.

    By the way, when the bleeding happens it is really just a drop that sits right at her vaginal opening. And sometimes gets a bit dried on the underside of her tail.
     
  10. WildflowerFarm

    WildflowerFarm New Member

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    Could anyone verify a good experience with Excenel? She weighed 99 pounds and he prescribed 2ccs. The vet advised using Penicillin or Excenel. I chose Excenel because there was no milk withdrawal and the vet said they would have the same effectiveness.

    i appreciate any responses. Thanks Michelle for filling in some more details!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  11. swgoats

    swgoats Active Member

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    Yes, I was thinking cystic ovaries. I don't know a whole lot about it, but I know it can cause them not to cycle properly. Does she ever act aggressive? But I've always heard of cystic ovaries with overweight does, so not sure...
     
  12. FaithNJoyOberhasli

    FaithNJoyOberhasli New Member

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    Nope, definitely not overweight (a little skinny, if anything), and I've never known her to be aggressive. She's a sweetie.
     
  13. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Did the vet check for a uterine infection? I had one doe who would cycle every month, but didn't conceive. When she cycled, she had alot of mucus. My sense was that it was a uterine infection and I chose to cull her as she was an older girl with other issues.
     
  14. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    Michelle, are you and Jonna talking about the same goat?

    If so, yes it sounds like a uterine infection. I have another doe that I was really hoping was cystic instead of having an infection, but after trying Cystorelin to no avail, I do believe she has an infection. My does was leaking some brownish fluid. She had aborted in January and I couldn't get her to rebreed.

    I just spoke with Julie Huffman who is reported to be very knowledgeable about breeding problems about my doe. She suggested 5 days of LA200 (or another antibiotic that I CANNOT remember the name of and have never heard of). She also suggested that I use the Cystorelin again when she comes into heat this fall and if that all fails, she suggested I try a CIDR and PG600.

    There's my 2 cents.
     
  15. WildflowerFarm

    WildflowerFarm New Member

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    Cindy,
    Yes Michelle and I are talking about the same goat. I got her from Michelle in April, so Michelle was filling in the details that predated when she came to us.

    Update: She has had three days in a row now with no blood. If it was a uterine infection, I would expect the blood not to stop. Would you agree?

    Another idea: A couple weeks ago I bought Hoegger's herbal wormer and gave her the three days. The timing coincides but I don't know if they are related. She was having mucous drip before the wormer. Then three days after is when the blood showed up. I wonder if the wormwood irritated her already irritated bladder enough to make it bleed. Any thoughts?

    Excenel? Would Excenel treat a UTI or a uterine infection?

    Thanks again!
    Jonna
     
  16. swgoats

    swgoats Active Member

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    Fennel simulates estrogen and promote menstruation in human females. It's to be avoid in heavy medicinal dosages by pregnant women (although respected herbalist Susun Weed reccomends a cup of fennel tea for morning sickness). I would say it is possible your doe is sensitive to the herbal dewormer if she eats it well.
     
  17. FaithNJoyOberhasli

    FaithNJoyOberhasli New Member

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    For the record, Jonna and I have had the "herbal wormer" talk. :biggrin And the fecaling talk, etc, etc. So, they're trying the herbal, and they know it's important to actually check to see if it's working for them with their goats, their property, etc.

    Another couple reasons I don't think it's a uterine infection is that it's been well over a year since she kidded, and there's also not been a drop in production. We've all wondered about it, though...
     
  18. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    But Michelle, I think she could have a walled off infection. I believe it is possible from what I've read on the forum. I could VERY WELL be wrong.

    And thanks for adding the info on the herbal wormer. Because I was going to say something. :lol
     
  19. FaithNJoyOberhasli

    FaithNJoyOberhasli New Member

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    Hmm...interesting thought about a walled-off infection. Hopefully it's not that... Sounds like maybe she's over it, though. :confused:

    And yeah, wanted to be sure to clarify about the herbal wormer thing, partly to save you all some time ;), partly to save Jonna a gentle scolding :p, and partly to spare my own reputation as a newbie mentor! :biggrin
     
  20. WildflowerFarm

    WildflowerFarm New Member

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    No bleeding for 9 days now. YEAH!!

    Thank you all for responding. Hopefully she is past whatever it is now.