Surge milker - need help

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Rose, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    I tried using my rebuilt milker today for the first time. It sucks just fine when I place the inflations in a bucket of water. When I try to put it on the goat, nothing happens.

    It doesn't have the vacuum cut-offs by the inflations, which I wish it did.

    Now what?
     
  2. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    I assume that your pulsater is working properly. Are your inflations expanding and contracting like normal ?. Do you have a negative 11 to 12 lbs on your vacuum guage ? If you have claws, are they put together properly.

    I would think that if you were loosing a vacuum, that you would be able to hear a sucking sound somewhere.

    I'm not sure what happens when an inflation splits (I haven't had one to wear out yet) but I wouldn't think that would be the case with everything just rebuilt.

    Maybe some others will be able to help you....but I would answer the questions above, as it might help somebody eliminate an area or two when trying to figure it out.

    Best wishes.......WHIM
     

  3. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    Q: I assume that your pulsater is working properly.

    A: I think so.

    Q:Are your inflations expanding and contracting like normal ?

    A: I don't know, but I don't think so. I stuck my finger in it, and it didn't suck down, but my fingers are smaller than teats.

    Q: Do you have a negative 11 to 12 lbs on your vacuum guage ?

    A: No. I don't know what to do about that. It does when it's in the water bucket.

    Q: If you have claws, are they put together properly?

    A: I don't know. I don't know what it's supposed to look like. It was supposed to come assembled, so I'm assuming it's right.

    Q: I would think that if you were loosing a vacuum, that you would be able to hear a sucking sound somewhere.

    A: If I put my ear to the end of the inflation, yes, I hear sucking, but there's not a good vacuum.
     
  4. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    OK.....if your pulsater is working right, it should be making a clicking sound much like the rhythm of a clock on a wall.

    Inflations should snug and unsnug against your finger (nomatter how small your finger is) to the beat of the pulsater.

    I think that you are loosing vacuum before hookup. If you are not showing 11 to 12 neg. on the vacuum gauge at hookup, then you don't have enough vacuum to make this thing work properly.

    If you have claws on the bottom of each inflation, then it sounds like they may be blocked open all the time ....thus not allowing your vacuum to build up neg pressure in your reservoir tank.

    If there are no claws or no valves to shut your lines off on on.....then you are probably not gonna be able to build up enough vacuum to make this thing work properly.

    One more question.......is this a machine that you have used before ? (or just bought)... If so, what did they change about it ?

    Maybe Ken can get on here, as he knows much more than me about the mechanics in play here.

    WHIM
     
  5. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    Q: One more question.......is this a machine that you have used before ? (or just bought)... If so, what did they change about it ?

    A: This is my first machine. First time ever to try a milking machine. TOTAL newbie on the whole milking machine aspect of milk goats. :help2

    Q: If your pulsator is working right, it should be making a clicking sound much like the rhythm of a clock on a wall.

    A: Yes, it's doing that, when the inflations are in the bucket of water.

    Q: Inflations should snug and unsnug against your finger (no matter how small your finger is) to the beat of the pulsater.

    A: Not doing this.

    Q: If you have claws on the bottom of each inflation, then it sounds like they may be blocked open all the time ....thus not allowing your vacuum to build up neg pressure in your reservoir tank. If there are no claws or no valves to shut your lines off on on.....then you are probably not gonna be able to build up enough vacuum to make this thing work properly.

    A: The claw is the whole assembly with fittings, right? It has that, but it does not have cut off valves.
     
  6. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    OK.......it sounds like you are not able to build up the vacuum that you need to make the initial hookup.

    I've only had one set of claws....so I'm guessing here just a bit.

    The ones that I used had a check type disk in them (checkvalve) ...about the size of a half dollar. These can be held open by a little switch type thingy located on the claw. If these are held open constantly, it will be letting air pass through so fast that your system never builds up enough vacuum to operate .

    By the fact that you say that it seems to build up vacuum enough to work while your inflations is in a bucket of water, tends to make me believe that this is a claw operational problem.

    See if you can send Ken ( aRealdairyman ) a PM ......he has seen way more of these different type claws and setups than I have, and would come much closer to figuring this problem out.

    Don't know if it possible, but a pic of the machine....mainly a fairly close pic of the inflations and claws , hooked up to the milk lines might help us solve the problem.

    WHIM
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    don't think that is a claw Rose, do you have anything further back on the line? To the right of your picture?
     
  8. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    From there, it's just the hoses to the bucket. Pictures follow:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    Here's everything:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Halo-M Nubians

    Halo-M Nubians New Member

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    I didn't read through everything-so if I'm repeating things sorry. You don't have claws, which are nice but not necessary. Some cheap shut-offs would help you out alot. Otherwise your going to lose vacuum before you get them on the teat. Maybe those little caps are plugs or something? never seen that before.. Anyhow, the vacuum should pick up again once the teats are in place, but that would mean holding them both on snuggly. A bit awkward. I have the same surge lid and if your goats are lower than the bucket you've been sucking water out of it could be that the milk lines are getting shut off when you try to put them on the goat. Those lids are made so with a cow you can drop the inflations and it seals off the hose. if you look at where the hoses slide on they are pointy. You can grind those off..I have a delavel bucket so I bungee the handle up to support the lines. I've got a new lid now and I can't wait to switch!
     
  11. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    OK....no, you have no claws or valves....so air is going through your lines as soon as you turn the vacuum pump on I guess.
    OK....there is an air line form your vacuum pump to your air tank.....then from your air tank to your surge bucket. Is there a shut off/on valve located on this line between your air tank and your milk bucket ?

    I assume if there is one, that this is how to shut the vacuum off and on while your hooking up to the teats, and releasing from them.

    I'll be honest with you.......I set mine up with those green colored manual type valves on each of my milk lines....so I can turn them on and off to each inflation as needed. I open the valve(s) just as I'm slipping the inflation on the teat, and then shut the valve off before removing it. This setup works well for me as I never waste much vacuum in the process.....and too, I'm always with my doe while she is on the stand, so I don't worry about an inflation fallin off or something else going wrong.

    I also have a main valve on my vacuum line between my air tank and my milk bucket, which will kill my pulsater too......just in case I want to kill the whole system without having to cut my pump off.

    Hang in there....we'll figure this thing out one way or another.

    Whim
     
  12. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    Nope, no cut offs anywhere except the switch that turns the pump on and off.

    So..... I need to order something from Hoegger. Cut off valves? Claws?
     
  13. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Alice,

    Try kinking the hose before putting the inflations on the teats. Perhaps that will help you to not lose vacuum.

    I too love the shut off valves. :)

    Sara
     
  14. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    Do both hoses that go to each inflation need to be kinked? He's got them tied together with zip ties. I can loosen a tie or two if it's just the one hose that needs to be kinked to make it easier.

    Making sure I understand.... kink, let pressure build, put inflation over teat, unkink. Correct?
     
  15. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    I used to have different inflations and claws than I do now... they didn't have shut offs and I struggled with vacuum issues when learning how to milk by machine for the first time.

    I didn't have a Surge bucket so I don't know if this will work for you but it is worth a try for now. Kink the milk hose (I had silicone so it was easy). Yes, kink, build pressure, put on teats, unkink. If it works you will easily get the hang of it and then the process will be much quicker and you can unkink as you are putting the inflations on the teats.

    I haven't seen the caps on your inflations before... do they work to prevent the loss of vacuum?

    Good luck.

    Sara

    I forgot to ask, have you tried just sucking a bucket of water through the inflations to make sure you even have vacuum?
     
  16. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    My set up is exactly like yours except I have the shut off valves and different inflations.
    Try this close those caps on the end of your inflations. as you put it to the teat under the cap and put on the teat one at a time. or do as Sara says and fold your line over to put a kink in it while putting it on the teat. GET YOU SOME shut off valves your life will be much easier. you might can find them in a hardware store near you. otherwise order them.
     
  17. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    Yes, it works fine if you drop the inflations into a five gallon bucket full of water. :sigh

    Our vet is a former dairy person. On the off chance he has some, I'm calling to see if he has cut off valves sitting around.
     
  18. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    If the vacume guage will read 12 with the inflations in a bucket of water than...

    Does the vacume run at 12 with your caps on the end of your shells/inflations? IF not than up your vacume by turning the screw on until with the caps on your shells/inflation it reads about 13. Now when the pressure is correct, hurry and take the cap off and slip it on the teat. You are letting all the vacume escape.

    Kinking it will also work like Sara said, but that is what your caps are for. Vicki
     
  19. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    I have a hard time making the caps go in and stay on. I'll work on it. Don't know if it's my arthritis or the newness of the caps.

    I'll be doing a lot of experimenting this evening. :D