soy free rations

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by baileybunch, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    I do not want to feed soy products (or rations with soy) to my goats (and sheep). So far, so good but after kidding I have always fed Calf Manna to get the does back in condition. I don't want to use it this year. I don't have those beefy does that tend to be overweight, so it takes some time and work to get that little fat pad back on the rump of my girls. I am also concerned about production since they will be on a lower protein amount this year (used to use Purina Goat Chow 16%, top dressed with Calf Manna).

    I am using whole barley, whole oats, BOSS, flax seeds, beet pulp (after they freshen) and alfalfa pellets (3 lbs per day) at a rate of 2Cal/1Phos, of course.

    Is anyone else not feeding soy protein and if so how are you making up for it? What amounts do you give to get a doe back in condition after kidding. Are your girls maintaining condition and producing well for you?
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    If you use your alfalfa pellets as your protein and calcium source. You oats as their carbs and energy. And your BOSS for fat. Than there wouldn't be any reason to use soy. But your alfalfa pellets have to be 17%. Growing out kids on this program without added protein, and the best protein is high protein alfalfa hay, which we can't get...is soy. And nearly all oils during the spring and summer are soy oils in all mixed grain rations, and linseed during the fall and winter. Even our wonderful Bluebonnet dry mixes and Pilgrims dry mix which you won't find better quality mixes than those use soybean oil as a binder of the minerals and yeasts, or to make the pellet with the minerals and yeast.

    You aren't going to ever get weight on a doe after she kids, only very very poor milkers can you do this to. So change your thinking on that one point. At 100 days pregnant what your does look like at that point is pretty much what they will freshen at. So you have 50 days in which they will grow 1 to 5 kids to 5 to 8 pounds...if you feed too much grain and she kids with 1 you will have a fat doe at fresheing who also can go into ketosis...if you guess wrong and feed her no grain and she has quads, you have a doe who is emaciated when she comes into milk with small kids.

    Also if your goal is 2 to 1 calcium to phos it shouldn't be, it should be like 5 to 1 when you are not using protein in other forms. There diet should be alfalfa alfalfa and some more alfalfa. Grain to supplement the lack of energy, carbs and fat in the alfalfa. And they need to be supplemented when 100 days pregnant through lacatation. Vicki
     

  3. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    Okay. But after a doe kids and freshens, at least mine, she seems to lose her condition. What I notice most is the lack of fat over her rump (it feels bony). After supplementing with Calf Manna and increasing her grain ration, I can feel the smoothness come back, the fat pad, the hollow areas fill in a bit. It has happend here each kidding. They kid fine, are healthy and produce well but just seem drawn at first because of the heavy demand. I now know that I can't put weight on a lactating doe but I can bring her to better a condition. I haven't been around other herds, so haven't been able to really see this in others although I have heard others talk similarly. Mind you I was using Purina Goat Chow in the past which is 16% and 2:1 Cal/Phos. I went by the "pound for maintenance, pound for each 2 pounds of milk" method. So, I need to know how this new method really looks.

    The alfalfa pellets available can range from 17% to 15% protein. I'm feeding 3 lbs a day to does/doelings bred about 90 days. This has worked out to be 3Cal/1Phos when they were bieng milked and fed grain in the stand. We recently dried off a doe and that is what she was getting each day. Right now I feed 1 pound of grains (plus BOSS and Flax) on the stand to the one doe we are still milking. Is that going to be enough? And then bring alfalfa up to 5 pounds?

    At almost 100 days bred, I am happy with what my does look like. So, I should aim for 5 parts alfalfa to 1 part grains by the time they kid? How does that mearsure in pounds? And right now we are not feeding grain to the bred does but will begin again slowly once they are 100 days bred.

    It was so much more simple to just feed the Goat Chow! All balanced and simple. It's so hard to figure all this out. What I think I'm doing right always seems to be wrong.
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Well I don't can't believe your goats looked like they do now, on Purina Goat chow. It isn't eaiser at all to use something like it. Prekidding grain should bring you close to what they were eating last year, with always more alfalfa than grain. Now if you have breed leaders like Tracy, don't read anything I write! Nobody can tell you exactly how much grain you will need to feed when it is real grain and not byproducts...plus, I have really good milkers eating only 1 pound of grain a day and eating probably 5 pounds of alfalfa pellets, and other does who eat 4 pounds of grain a day and eat 5 pounds of grain who milk the same. Each do is different. I start with 1 pound in the am and 1 pound in the pm as maintenence by the day the kid, then up or lower the amount of grain by the time they are about 8 weeks into their lactation. The 3 pounds of alfalfa pellets a day go up to full choice as they start kidding. Vicki
     
  5. Cotton Eyed Does

    Cotton Eyed Does New Member

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    I also believe that the amount of grain that you give them is in direct correlation with the breed you have also. Alpines produce more milk than (most) Nubians do and I have to give my does more grain to maintain their body condition during lactation, along with their alfalfa pellets daily.
     
  6. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    Ahh...that is what I am thinking, too. I have Alpines and LaManchas and it's a struggle to maintain their condition. That's when I began with the Calf Manna after kidding. Otherwise they became very bony. I'm just trying to work through the feeding of whole grains and alfalfa routine.