Sick kid - any ideas?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by goatkid, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Something is going on with Cherry Blossom. She's the La Mancha doeling born 7/10 who had the problem with scours a while back. In the past, when she had the runs, she still took her bottle eagerly and ate hay. The vet had said there was the possibility of a congenital defect if she didn't respond to treatment. She had ben doing really well, forming solid berries and acting curious and playful. Thursday morning she drank her bottle eagerly, but then was acting off when I returned her to her pen. I took her temp and it was 106.3. She also had diarreah. I treated her with banamine, Nuflor, probios and thiamin. She seemed better in an hour or so and was eating hay with the other kids. She ate her whole bottle that evening. Friday morning, she wasn't as quick to finish her bottle, but did eat it all. Her temp was down to 102.5. She was coughing a little but no runy nose or rattly breathing. I gave her more Nuflor, probios and thiamin. She was slower to eat alfalfa hay, but did eat some grass hay and developer pellets. She finished her botle that night, but seemed to need to take a couple short breaks, rather than finish it quickly. Saturday morning, she only ate half her bottle and once again, ate some grass hay and pellets. She got more Nuflor/probios/thiamin and also some Biomycin. In the evening, she ate a little over half her bottle. This morning, she's refusing her bottle, isn't nibbling on hay and her temp is only 100.6. She has the runs. I gave her probios, but nothing else as I'm not sure if she's reacting to the meds. Normally, if it's pneumonia, a kid is responding to treatment. She's had her CDT shots, but do you think it's wise to give C&D antitoxin? I really don't want to lose this kid. Her twin brother who now lives with the young bucks is doing fine. I also want to add that she's been growing well and now weighs 50# and no pot belly or lack of condition like a kid with a cocci or worm problem. Kathie
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    COCCI BVit and if she isn't eating and drinking then would be using lactated ringers.
     

  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    It does make me scream :)

    Where is the fecal sample? The only constant that made her feel good enough to eat was the banamine yet you stopped using it. It calms the gut, it brings down fever, makes them feel better. B vitamins, lactated ringers are the first line of defense you do in any goat that is off.

    Now your have added tetracycline to the nuflor and you still do not have a diagnosis you are using for this kid. Goats with pneumonia do not have diarrhea. Babies with diarrhea, which she was one, will have a relapse as soon as the numbers of worms or cocci repopulate the gut, why prevention right after treatment is huge, or a major move out of the pen. Treatment again because if all you did was kill the adults or make them abandon ship you still have all the immature larvae and eggs maturing into problem adults.

    Sure she could have some defect, but that is really far fetched. Summer kids simply need the very best management to thrive, futher south and they need the very best management to even survive.

    Get a fecal. Start her on a sulfa, use the banamine to calm the gut, make sure she is wormed for the worms you have in your area, with diarrhea, fecal some of the other kids in the pen they will also tell you, maybe not in numbers but certainly in identifying the species. Or worm her....use two classes in a cocktail for HC and stomach worms. Get some of the diarsynal to use, we know probiotics aren't really doing anything for the rumen.

    Yes being severely debilitated from stomach worms or anemia from HC can bring on cocci (let normal levels rise), and eventually will kill them with pneumonia etc...but you are treating the end result just before death and not treating the underlying problem....not manageing your summer born kids with kid gloves for cocci and worms, or simply like me don't have them, it's way too much work during the busiest time of the year.

    Although someone was on Nubian talk making fun of the whole summer kid problem seen in most new herds, it is a huge consideration when trying to raise kids in saturated pens, out of your youngest milkers who do not have quality colostrum etc... Vicki
     
  4. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Thanks, Vicki. I had thought of giving more banamine this morning, but hesitated to do so because of her lowered temperature. After reading your post, I gave her a halved dose of banamine. I went back into the house to get some LR and when I came back out, she was eating :D How long can I give the banamine without hurting her? We usually worm with Valbazen and Ivermectin in this area. I've never done a coctail before. Do you do both on the same day or stagger them? She's back on the sulfa as of today. I was hoping the coccidiostat in her pellets would be prevention enough, but obviously she needs the sulfa every 21 days.
    I don't normally breed for summer kids. We show in summer and I like all my kids to be either weanable or down to two bottles a day by then. What happened with her is that her dam was at my friend's house for some major hoof/foot work. I had wanted her bred to kid in spring, but she didn't breed the doe til late winter. The dam was a 7 year old CAE negative doe with a strong immune system and Cherry got her mom's colostrum. I guess that's why I was a bit surprized to have such a hot house flower in this kid. If she pulls through all this OK, she will have to wait til next year to be bred as I will not be breeding for any more July kids.
     
  5. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    You normaly want clear directions when you use vet scripts, especially steroids. Banamine will lower the temp but I have never seen it lower the temp below normal, so other than in infant kids I would never hesitate to use banamine even in a low temp. Although 6 days is what most will say, I have used it considerably longer than that with no long term ill effects.

    Of course you will want to now use it with the new course of treatment, as if you didn't originally use it at all.

    Unless you worm with something that actually kills the worms you have, obviously you will have problems. Valbazen has never been a wormer for blood sucking worms, it was always about tapes, liveflukes and lungworm and stomach (cool weather worms) something you could likely use well in the winter there. Ivermectin has such broad resistance I would doubt it could be a serious wormer in anyones herd anymore unless you fecal before and after to see if it even works.

    Your july born kid is not old enough to be eating enough of the pellets to keep cocci at bay...always ask for the mg/kg of the dosed decox in your pellet, you will be shocked....at 1 pound per 30 to 50s of kid weight in lambs your 3 month old may be expected to eat 2 or maybe even 3 pounds each day to keep the blood level up. vicki
     
  6. Bella Star

    Bella Star New Member

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    Sounds like cocci to me, I had one about the same age as yours,he took the poops and I wormed him and he kept pooping so 5days on Di Methox and he is back to normal .
     
  7. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I'm wondering if, besides possible cocci, if Cherry has a sensitivity to goat milk. When she was younger, I noticed she wasn't able to eat as muck milk as other klids her age without getting the runs, despite cocci treatment. I had to cut back on her milk. Sunday, after treating her with the sulfa and banamine, she started eating hay and then proceeded to eagerly take 20 oz of milk. Shortly after her bottle, she began acting like she wasn't feeling well again. She refused her evening bottle, and refused her bottles on Monday. She just nibbled a little at her hay, and acted like she didn't feel well, even after her sulfa and banamine. This morning, she was acting more like herself and ate hay and pellets. She also wanted a bottle. I only gave her a couple ounces of milk. She was eating and hanging out with her penmates all day. She seems back to normal tonite. I didn't give her a bottle because I'm afraid she may start feeling sick again. The vet tech says it's possible she could have a milk sensitivity. Has anyone ever had a goat with this problem? Though I hate to wean doelings this soon, she technically is old enough at 3 1/2 months old. Kathie
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Give her less milk at a time and more often is the key to not having that problem I personally would cut her back to 8 to 10 oz 4 or more times a day.
     
  9. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Honestly when I hear stuff like this I think, put her down then. Goat who are lactose intollerant, it's bunk really, but if you truly believe this why would you want to prepetuate this? Goats with runny nose and eyes from allergies, sorry but put this weak stuff down so it doesn't ruin the core health of your herd. Some kids simply can't make it into adult hood, we don't want to breed them and get kids from this goat we created. Cull now. Vicki
     
  10. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I'm not sure if it's lactose intolerance. I was just wondering if you guys thought it was possible. I've been giving Cherry 10 oz of milk twice today and she continues to do well. This is one doeling I want to hang onto and see what she does. Her dam was a champion NOA La Mancha and Cherry is one of only two full La Mancha doe kids she had. If this were one of the numerous Nubian kids I had this year, I would likely be looking at the situation differently. I did cull a Nubian yearling who had allergies. Of course, if Cherry fails to keep growing or continues to have tummy problems, I'll have to rethink this. Kathie
     
  11. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I personally still think this is a cocci problem and probably has already damaged the gut.