Should I keep her separated? + other ?'s

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Faithful Crown Nubians, Nov 22, 2008.

  1. Should I keep Hannah separated from the other two girls? I have her separated right now because she went through another coccidia episode. I had stripped out the pen and put fresh bedding down so I didn't want her in there having the runs all over with Delilah and Georgia. So far, those two haven't had coccidia this time around and I want to keep it that way.

    She has been separated since Thursday. She was started on a different coccidia medicine and she has really improved. She went from not eating, hunched up, shivering, grinding teeth, runny poop with the nasty stuff (intestinal lining) in it, to chowing down on hay/minerals, firm poop, not little berriers yet but lot easier to pick out of her stall!

    Anyways, I am thinking about keeping her separated for a few months. She is not stressing being by herself, infact, I think she kinda enjoys it. The other two girls aren't stressing out either and Georgia really likes the new set up. Hannah was always mean to Georgia.

    Fecals came back clean (for worms) on all 3 does, Hannah of course had coccidia, which I already knew. I am going to go ahead and worm her though incase she has worms, there may just not be eggs at the moment in their poop.

    Is Cydectin safe to use in pregnant does? I am not concerned with Hannah losing this pregnancy. I would love kids out of her next year but getting her better and keeping her healthy is more important, so if she did settle and she now lost the pregnancy, or loses due to worming its fine. But I wanted to worm Delilah to because of her eyelids being paler then they should be. I am going to try to wait until she's further along in her pregnancy before worming but just wanted to make sure Cydectin is ok to use.
    Also, since we are on wormers.....is Quest ok to use on pregnant does? (Im taking notes but couldn't find the answer to my questions on here.)

    I know the Cydectin worked on my bucks before breeding season. They were pale, I wormed w/ Cydectin and they have pink eyelids still.
     
  2. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I have one doeling who I believe has been dealing with coccidia. I have not isolated her as I think her immune system is different, being that she's younger than the other kids. Usually, adult goats don't have problems with coccidiosis, so if the other two are full grown and healthy, that shouldn't be a problem for them. On the other hand, if Hannah is stressed from being picked on by the other goats, she may do better in her own healing if kept separated. I haven't used Cydectin on my goats yet as Ivermectin still works here. From what I've read on this forum, it's OK to use on pregnant goats, but no wormer should be used the first 30 days unless absolutely necessary. Kathie
     

  3. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    This info on Cydectin & Quest came from a post Sondra made in 101 (think she was quoting Kaye?):

    Cydectin Cattle wormer: Contains 5 mg moxidectin/mL
    Quest® Gel moxidectin:Contains 20 mg moxidectin/mL

    We use Cydectin cattle wormer at the rate of 1cc/22-25#'s.
    So, if you gave her 1.5cc of the Quest....you wormed for a 125# goat. Quest is recommended at 1cc/100# of bodyweight. Cydectin pour-on is 1cc/25# orally.

    -----
    I can't answer as to safety in pregnancy (think I've read it's okay, but I also think the cydectin bottle I've seen has more than moxidectin in it and has a flukecide as well...?) But the advise I've been given is that if I need to use moxidectin and have cydectin, to use that rather than quest b/c the carrier may work a little better. If I don't have cydectin, and don't need a lot, then get quest b/c it will be easier on my pocketbook.

    I think there may be something on worming pregnant does in the "Birth Till Kidding" article...? (I think everything is in there! :) )

    As far as separating them, I've had animals w/cocci in with animals w/o cocci (but never had bad scours, just clumpier stools) and had no problems.
     
  4. The three goats are adults. They had coccidia in Aug-Sept. And now Hannah has it again. Hannah is the herd queen. It kept going back and forth from one goat to another. I finally got rid of it and now its back, but only Hannah has it.

    If you need all the information search my threads. I've posted quite a few... I don't feel like retyping it all out. :)

    So I think I'll stick to my plans and just keep her separated until I'm sure its gone.

    Thanks!
     
  5. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Amy.....just keep in mind that it's really never ever gone.....just under control is all. I sure hope you got all them gal's on the straight and narrow this time.

    Best wishes, WHIM
     
  6. Yea Its never gone but adults shouldn't have this problem. They should be able to get over it and be healthy afterwards...if I cant get them over it I'll sell the nubians and stick with the pygmys. Never had any problems with them. Shoulda stuck with them in the first place! Would have been cheaper to! :/ :lol But nooooooooooo I just had to go and see a cute little baby nubian that was only like a day or so old. With those LOOOOONNGGG floppy ears. I just HAD to have one. :/
     
  7. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    """"But the advise I've been given is that if I need to use moxidectin and have cydectin, to use that rather than quest b/c the carrier may work a little better. """" B.

    Not picking on you Billie, but I've seen this similar statement before.....and also one where the person was worried about the active drug moxidectin somehow separating from the carrier inside the tube of Quest.
    IMO- both of those statements are made on very shaky ground.
    Think about it a moment. Cydectin (moxidectin) pour on is designed to be poured on, not used orally. On the other hand, Quest (moxidectin) is designed to be used orally. Now why on earth would a drug laboratory design an oral medication that has a poorer carrier than a topical medication that is not designed to be digested internally ? Also, in the mixing and storing of Quest (moxidectin), it would go to reason in my mind, the these drug laboratories are smart enough to design a medication that will not separate that easily (especially in a jell). Separation could mean severe accidental overdose or no dose at all. Both could mean bad outcomes in the use of that product, and I can tell you, that is the last thing that a drug manufacture and their lawyers want to encounter.
    I realize this was heavily discussed in another thread recently with the inclusion of an injectable (moxidectin) method now. And, although we have to go "off script" a lot with many things in order to achieve what we need to, I think that sometimes we out smart ourselves doing it from time to time.
    I seen statements made on that other thread, that said something like ...I've been using cydectin pour on orally, and it works great, so I'm not switching........ On a forum that has a reputation like this one has when it comes to searching out better ways of doing things, I find statements like that to be very self limiting.

    As for you Amy.......I really have my doubts that this is just a Nubi thing at your place, even though that is one of the common ties in the problem there.

    As far as "moxidectin" containing any flukacide at all... ( cydectin pour on / Quest / Quest plus/ moxidectin injectable )........I don't think that any of these are effective against liver flukes, so I have my doubts than any of these listed contain flukacide. I would check with Kaye just to make double sure on that though.

    And if you do loose your pregnancy(s) now......it's really not too late to get these doe's bred back to kid next spring......but only if you can get them gal's straightened out first, and pretty soon at that.

    Best wishes, WHIM
     
  8. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    No problem, Whim. :) As I said, I was passing along something I heard, not something I've tried and know to be true--but something to research further. :) I've never used either (was going to use cydectin, but used valbazen instead). Y'all know I'm a bit of a Chatty-Cathy, so will jump in on just about any topic, but do try to be clear about how little I know! :)
     
  9. Nubians are the only ones with it. Never had a problem with the pygmys. :)

    Hopefully we'll soon be through this.
     
  10. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I don't see Nubians as being more succeptable to cocci than the other breeds. My problem kid is a La Mancha. The Nubies she lives with have been just fine. Your Pygmys must have developed resistance to it as they grew, so aren't getting sick with the other goats now. I can't say for sure why your Nubians have been having problems, but it does sound like something going on with their immune system to me. I don't know that goats pass it back and forth. It can stay in a pen for a long time. With my kid, I'm now keeping her on preventative doses of sulfa every 21 days for a few months. Kathie
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I've been using cydectin pour on orally, and it works great, so I'm not switching........ On a forum that has a reputation like this one has when it comes to searching out better ways of doing things, I find statements like that to be very self limiting.
    ............................................

    At some point as a breeder you do have to say WHEN. I myself am very happy with the pour on used orally, and don't have time to yet again test out a new wormer. I personaly do know 2 people who have not had success using the Quest, enough to press folks buying from me to use the pouron until we do get someone willing to do the work on fecals, worming etc...next year when HC is a problem.

    Billie why on earth are you using Valbazen?

    Amy, did you ever get a PPM of occysts? I have already said this but it is worth the stating again, there is something very very wrong with an adult doe having cocci problems over and over again without an underlying problm of something else happening. I still think the cocci is simply an underlying problem, I would doubt her numbers on fecal are even at treatment levels and something else entierly different is being missed here.

    Have you thought about something like putting the whole group of does on feed through tetracycline until spring? Blood testing for abortive disease, mycoplasma, chylamydia and Q fever? Fecal and blood testing for Johnnes. Retesting for CAE.

    For now I would treatment level does with a sulfa for bacterial and cocci every 21 days while you get some answers back. Vicki
     
  12. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Vicki, I haven't used wormers routinely, but have had the vet do fecals each month to see what we're dealing with, and medicated only as necessary. So far, I only had one case of HC when I first brought the goats home, and that was just a few oocysts. Normally, vet said she wouldn't worry with so few eggs, but since they were new, my land was fresh, and we could wipe it out, she Rxed valbazen. I asked her about cydectin, since I got advise on here for both cydectin and valbazen and she said that for our area, she likes to hold off on the cydectin and use it in difficult cases, but that in mild ones, valbazen is still quite effective here. We haven't seen any HC since. Before I got the valbazen from her, I had gone out and bought the cydectin, but then got told from some other sources to not use it... Put me in a real scare, if you recall that whole scenario... So, I waited the weekend until the vet came off vacation and checked with her prior to treating, since I was such a newby scared and confused mess!

    Sorry, Amy, didn't mean to hijack anything! :)
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Sorry Billie, forgot about that....hopefully you will go by better advice this spring and summer :) vicki