Selenium OD symptoms

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Thermopkt, Sep 19, 2008.

  1. Thermopkt

    Thermopkt New Member

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    What are the symptoms of selenium overdose? I just started with onyx mineral and it has 26 ppm of selenium in it. We tend to have selenium problems in my area, too much of it, but I thought I'd try this and see what happens. I desperately needed a better mineral and I couldn't find anything that could be ordered here that didn't have a lot of selenium in it. Keeping my fingers crossed, but I want to know what to look for so I can hopefully catch it early if anything happens.
     

  2. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature Active Member

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    If you are talking about Cargill Right Now Onyx, that is what i use, my goats LOVE it.

    IMO you would not get selenium overdose as so many of us give BoSe injections routinely to our herd (BoSe is selenium).

    However, here is a link http://www.jackmauldin.com/health/selenium.htm

    c&p from link:

    Selenium toxicity

    Selenium has a very narrow margin of safety. Goats require 0.2 parts per million of selenium, and the toxic level is 3 ppm. Some symptoms of selenium deficiency are identical to those of selenium toxicity. A doe's failure to conceive can be the result of either selenium deficiency or toxicity. Kidney failure, stillbirth and abortions also may be attributable to either end of this spectrum. By contrast, hair loss in the beard and flank regions and cracks and deformities in horns and hooves may reveal an over-abundance of selenium in the goat's diet.

    Over-concentrations of selenium occur in parts of North Dakota, South Dakota, Nevada, Idaho, California, Arizona, New Mexico and adjacent states. See your local agricultural extension agent for information on concentrations in your area. Certain "indicator" plants reveal a toxic level of selenium in the soil. Some species of Astragalus (locoweed) indicate the, presence of high levels of soil-based selenium. Goats actually become addicted to these plants if they are not completely removed from this forage.

    Symptoms of severe selenium toxicity include impaired vision and staggering ("blind staggers"), rear legs that won't support the body, then muscle weakness in the front legs and progressive weight loss. Each of these symptoms can also be symptoms of other illnesses, so the producer should determine his area's selenium conditions in advance to avoid an incorrect diagnosis.

    Once a goat has severe selenium toxicity, there is no known effective treatment. Removing the affected animal from the area where the problem occurred and performing supportive therapy is the best chance of saving the goat. Goats affected by selenium toxicity remain bright, alert, and are eating well up to the time of death
     
  3. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Diane...was just reading this, and I'm not sure where you copied from...but it kinda confused me a bit, as there seems to be a contradiction in it......maybe someone can explain it to me without getting to far from the topic here.


    """"Symptoms of severe selenium toxicity include impaired vision and staggering ("blind staggers"), rear legs that won't support the body, then muscle weakness in the front legs and progressive weight loss. Each of these symptoms can also be symptoms of other illnesses, so the producer should determine his area's selenium conditions in advance to avoid an incorrect diagnosis.

    """"Goats affected by selenium toxicity remain bright, alert, and are eating well up to the time of death"""



    I guess you can see what's throwing me here.

    Thanks, Whim
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    read the link I referred to Whim I don't like that link from the boer goat site myself
     
  5. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Perhaps you can find a mineral for cattle that is specific to your area - it would probably have less selenium. 26ppm doesn't seem very high to me, but if I was concerned, I'd give each doe a capsule of Vitamin E (or maybe E-crumbles?) every few days to buffer the selenium. If you really want to check, perhaps one group of goats is the control group - mineral only, while the other receives the supplemental E. Watch them closely and adjust accordingly. Camille
     
  6. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Kathryne....you know, I could be wrong on this....but I have my doubts that you will have any problems with sel. O.D. in your goats...at least not with diet alone.
    IMO....your goats would need to graze/browse on almost unlimited amounts of high selenium producing plants along with this supplement to even get close.
    ....but since you said that there have been problems around you, it does make me stop and pause a bit.

    I've really only heard of one situation where Sel. OD occurred and was clearly identified, and to the best of my knowledge...it happened to some folks who injected about 3 times the normal dose into some Pigmy's. It would have probably killed them regardless of what their prior levels were.


    I would sure look into those "problems" that have occurred up there, and just see what the folks around you do.....and what happened/management where the problems occurred.

    You can sometimes hear things that are not completely accurate....just like a couple folks that told me they were having goats dieing of new super worms this year........when I got there with the micro, it wasn't worms at all....it was cocci....and they had been wasting their time trying to treat it with Ivomec.......but the word got out that the super worms were killing everything.

    Maybe things will work to your favor with this "problem".

    Whim
     
  7. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Also remember your answers are always a blood test away :) Vicki
     
  8. Thermopkt

    Thermopkt New Member

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    What can you learn from a blood test, as far as the overall health of the goat. If you can test for a wide range of things, I think that would help me to make my management practices better. At the moment, I'm kind of guess, try it, and see if it works.


    Whim, as far as the selenium thing, we do have lot of it up here, but it tends to 'swirl' I guess you could say. I haven't actually had my pasture soil tested yet, but there is a cattle ranch up the road that has lost cattle to selenium OD. They have had a lot of their soil tested. I'm willing to try this mineral because I don't think my property has a lot. I don't see the kind of vegetation that one usually sees in high selenium areas. I know all plants can store selenium to one degree or another, but I don't have much of the ones that are known just for that. I haven't had any problems with the goats that are on pasture either. The guy that I buy my hay from has had his fields in hay since time began, so I don't even know if he has any selenium left in his soil. :) I have thought about this and taken what I feel are 'acceptable risks' for the situation. I know I have copper deficiency, and probably many others that I don't realize yet, and that needs to be addressed. I don't supplement with selenium of any sort outside of the mineral. Can't even find a vet who will sell BoSe around here. :) I just want to know early signs to look for in case I am wrong, and pasture plus mineral is too much.

    Thank you all so much for you help!!!
     
  9. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    A blood test can tell you the selenium level in your goats blood. Goats store copper in their liver and calcium in their bones/udder full of milk, so both of these test done on blood don't give you a real idea of what is going on.

    If you get a mean value of the selenium level in your does normally, check it with what is considered normal in Goat Medicine...then you give the bo-se shot of 1cc per 40 pounds you can see the rise and how long this rise lasts...it isn't enough to treat any kind of defficency but it will bolster the amounts of kids born because it puts her in optimum fertility.

    Why when folks talk about selenium OD with bo-se they would have to be using mega amounts and really often...every 6 weeks, to even raise the blood level with it to even a high range. What we do with bo-se is only about optimum health.

    We all know that orally it must be degraded in the rumen alot, because even with at the USDA's high amounts in feed and our minerals you still do not get high range numers on blood.

    With you knowing you have problems with this in your area, I would want to know with a blood test if it is true in your goats or not.

    Do you have high multiples for your breed? Vicki
     
  10. Thermopkt

    Thermopkt New Member

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    Do you have high multiples for your breed? Vicki


    I don't know. This was my first year of kidding. I had one 2nd freshener with twins and one FF with twins, .........so I'd guess not?