Sad morning in our herd :(

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Secondairy, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. Secondairy

    Secondairy Member

    At 3:30AM this morning I was awoken by my daughter in a quiet panic that the neighbor was at the door, and her dog got loose and came home with copious amounts of blood on him. She could hear my goats screaming, and she came right over. We both went down to see what happened, and my favorite yearling Whiskey was laying on the outside of the pen, soaking wet, covered in mud, and with a lot of blood on her hindquarters. I did a quick visual, noted a deep laceration on her upper inner thigh, and a few others on her hip, stifle, and neck. The dog managed to miss her tendons by mere fractions of inches, but she wouldn't get up. I called the emergency clinic, and told them to have a vet on call, and we would be there within 45-50 minutes. I was heading up to my neighbors house so that he could carry the goat to my van, as we have had so much rain here in the last few days that I feared that once I got the van down there, that I wouldn't be able to get it back out. While we walked away, the poor dear got herself up and started bawling for us, so I let her come up the hill at her own pace, and we loaded her into the van and headed for the clinic. There was so much fog, that it took us over an hour and a half to get there, and they were waiting for us at the door. I let her walk inside, and had them watch her movements her from the rear. The vet was concerned about her movement, and the fact that she is pregnant (which she will most likely slip since she is not far along, >12 days), and was very worried that she may have tendon and ligament damage. They took a series of X-rays, and could find nothing to show why she was so wobbly. A second series of films showed what the vet called, and I quote "a catastrophic injury" to her left leg and hip at the ball and socket site. Obviously the dog had bitten her with his lower jaw to the left of her escution and his upper jaw at her hips when he pulled her under the fence. The additional injuries were do to him getting her down, and she also had a rope burn like injury to her crown and back of her head, most likely from scraping under the cattle panel. The hip X-rays were very bad, showing the break to her right femur at the ball junction to her hip. The socket of her hip on that side was shattered, and the upper part of her thigh bone is above the hip entirely - I don't know how she walked in such agony, unless the shock of the ordeal was mercifully pain free. I am waiting for the orthopedic surgeon's prognosis and decision of weather to try and repair the leg, or with such a severe break and crushing of the bone end and socket if we are going to elect to amputate.

    The dog owner knows she is at fault. She has offered to pay for all vet bills, regardless of cost, as she now fully understands that her dog is bloodthirsty. Two years ago our rabbitry was hit by her dog. He broke the door down and terrorized all of our rabbits. He knocked cages down and ripped into them and ate several rabbits, killed several more outright, and many many more were so traumatized that they just died from fear. Several of my boyfriend's best show rabbits were just plain missing, and we can only assume that he ate them, or that they ran off and were picked off by fox, coyote, or hawks. These were high end show quality Mini Rex rabbits, small at about 4 lbs. each, and could easily been taken out with little to no evidence. I made it clear that I was not going to press charges, and that the dog must either be euthanized, or given away. They really didn't think it was their dog that did it, as he is great with children, babies, and the house cat. I scared him off, saw it was him, and went right over. to prepare for the confrontation. We made a deal, kill him or get rid of him, I didn't care, as long as he was gone. I ate my $3K in damages to rabbits and cages, but didn't incur any vet bills. They gave the dog away, but he kept taking off, and coming back home, so they kept him leashed at all times. I was not happy about it, but let it go. I AM NOT LETTING THIS ONE GO!

    She has agreed to pay the vet bills. The vet suggested calling animal control, and having the dog picked up, they said that they would file the complaint for me, and back it up with the medical data. Unfortunately, I am in a different county than my emergency vet, and they cant file for me, so they instructed me to go home and file ASAP. I called our SPCA for the numbers and it turns out we do not have animal control in our county :mad . They said to call the dog warden, and the police for a report. I called the dog warden, and he is on vacation till Monday. Called the Police, and they do not handle domestic animals, except in the case where a human is bitten. They sad they would call the dog warden's boss, and file a complaint for me, and have them call me for more information. I still have not had a call back yet. They also advised to go to the magistrate for information and to see what I need to file. I don't want to press charges, I just want the bills paid for and my goat to be OK. I don't care if she is a tripod. She is my most special bottle baby. We almost lost her a few times to Coccidia as a young kid, and she has always been the small stunty girl. But she is a good girl. you can do anything you want to her, and she just stands and takes it like it was nothing. She took the stitching without drugs, just stood there like the good girl she is. They did sedate her for her X-rays, and once they saw the injury for what it really was.

    I need to know though, besides the current vet bills, is there anything else that I should put into the bill agreement? If she can never maintain a pregnancy to term, should the dog owner be responsible for the spay bill? If she can never again breed naturally, should she be responsible for AI fees? What about additional aftercare fees? I do NOT want to sue her, I want to keep things as friendly as possible. I will sue of I in fact need to.

    :sigh I am just so sad about all of this, and mad. If the dog was put down the first time, I would not be writing this post today. Has anyone ever had a milker with only one rear leg? How to they overcome their loss? Is there any problems with supporting pregnancy and a heavy udder afterwards? I am glad that he did not kill her, but at the same time, she has been traumatized so severely. I KNOW that I need a LGD, but there are not many around here. Only young puppies that come from show lines, and it is too late in the year to leave a little clueless puppy out all winter with the goats. 20/20 hindsight. I am sorry, I know some of you might yell at me for my lack of a LDG, and I accept the scolding, but I have been looking, just have not found one that would work for us.

  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    She also needs to pay for the loss of the baby babies and any furture losses of income off babies do to this. and if you have to put the goat down these furture babies etc are still in play plus the worth of the goat.

  3. MRFBarbara

    MRFBarbara Guest

    Feel so bad for you Kelly, hope things get better. You must be much nicer then I am, cause I would gladly offer to shoot that darn dog myself...
  4. Wendy Tinney

    Wendy Tinney New Member

    I'm so sorry! Can't imagine waking up to such trauma. I don't even know where I would start in dealing with the neighbor. Just know if I ever saw it again, she wouldn't ever see it again.

  5. New Member

    I need to know though, besides the current vet bills, is there anything else that I should put into the bill agreement? If she can never maintain a pregnancy to term, should the dog owner be responsible for the spay bill? If she can never again breed naturally, should she be responsible for AI fees? What about additional aftercare fees? I do NOT want to sue her, I want to keep things as friendly as possible. I will sue of I in fact need to.

    Sorry this happened......

    With no animal control, call the sherrif, they will know if you have livestock rules. Ours is quite cut and dry. But she is livestock and not a pet. If any of what you have said above is happening, non-milking, non breeding than put her down. Sue for the cost of the animal her lactation and her kids. Here in my county you would get 3 times that amount.

    The livestock laws won't pertain to you if you show up with spay bills and some sappy (sorry) story of how much you love this goat. You will be before men, you have to present yourself as a dairy goat business woman or you will not be taken seriously.

    So how differently is she going to contain this dog than she did before? I could care less if my neighbors hate me or love me, their animals and their children do not come onto my property. It's pretty simple, she can't take harm your business, no more than you can go over and shoot her engine of her car so she can't go to work. It's Texas, the person with the biggest gun and biggest dogs win :) If you don't have LGD's get one. Vicki
  6. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    So sorry about this, and I have no idea why you are feeling some guilt about not having an LDG yet. This is not your fault in any form or matter.......and actually, you are a kinder neighbor than I would have been...and I'll leave it at that.

    Although many folks have LDG's and they do a good job, I've always said that I'm 100% sure that I have complete control of my electric fence, and my 270 cal behind the door.....and I could never be able to say that about any kind of dog that could jump my fence, and go over to my neighbors house and kill or injure something or someone.

    I really don't think that future births can be sued for, (or gotten)....or at least that's what I've seen in a couple decisions before. Who can say that the doe wouldn't die birthing her first kids.
    You would come closer to recovering not only any vet care, but travel, future therapy, and in my opinion the cost of what the doe is valued at....(and that would be high end). Your own pain and suffering would come into play also.

    I know this is your neighbor, and I'm sure that you want to be a good neighbor too......but their dog that they know long before now has a problem, has caused you loss, and it's time for them to pay for the real cost of keeping that kinda of dog around for so long.

    These folks would have to go way beyond making this thing right, or I would be seeing a lawyer before much time passes. I would for sure keep up with any records/bills of this, and be sure that you have a legal report from some manner of law (whoever it is).


  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    I agree with Vicki 100% on this as you have to be business minded right now not beloved pet minded.
  8. Caprine Beings

    Caprine Beings New Member

    So sorry Kelly, I am like Barb, no dog makes it on my property without having some repercussion. Where we are still on the outskirts of town I can't really use a gun, so I use a bat. Neighbor was going to sue me for watching me take an aluminuim bat to his dog. Like the sheriff said if its on my property and harassing my goats I can kill it if I want too. No way will I let an animal get away with it. Most stay away from my place. Tammy
  9. New Member

    Tammy get a paint gun, this way the animal goes home marked and you can prove that they were there, then call the sheriff. Paint gun balls don't hurt persay, but it is enough of a shock to get the animal to run off. In Texas with Rotties and Pit Bulls believe you me I don't want to be in armed combat with either of them. Luckily we can defend out livestock with real bullets. Even in our county we now have leash laws which further give livestock owners more rights. Vicki
  10. Lafingkid

    Lafingkid New Member

    I am so sorry you are going through all of this. What a horrible way to wake up. I have no answers for you other than in my Dad's neck of the woods (Idaho) this definitely falls under "shoot, shovel and shut up". I'm praying for your goat and hoping you get the compensation you deserve.

  11. Caprine Beings

    Caprine Beings New Member

    Thanks Vicki for that great idea. The two I've already whacked are Staffordshires. Tammy
  12. FRW

    FRW New Member

    I had a similar thing happen to me. Two 16 yr olds hunting with bows and arrows decided to take target practice at my Lakeshore Buck(Ace Son).
    They were held at gun point by my Uncle while the sheriffs dept came and I was on the way to the vet with the buck. He died after I was at the vet with him for about an hour.He was bleeding out to bad.
    The parents called and said they would pay the vet bills etc until they found out the worth of the animal and what the entire bill would be.
    I had to file an injunction on them through the court and we had the hearing and the judge ordered them to pay . I had to produce proof of value of the animal etc. I brought a copy of his papers and also had the vet write the ta too numbers etc on the vet records to make sure I had proof that it was this buck who was deceased.
    They refused to pay so the District Attorney has filed an injunction (lien) against any property they own and they will have to pay me first before they are able to sell any personal property that has a title or deed.
    Make sure you have it all in writing and let them go to the vet and take claim to the vet bill and make sure they approve any new treatment and the cost with the vet or you are again responsible for any new treatment plan.
    Like Vicki said make sure you conduct yourself as a livestock business. You never know what situation that you are going to get into. Take care of yourself first. I would stay on the sheriffs department until that dog is put down. He will be back...
    If he is not in a secure pen, secure your does at night.
    I am not sure how much land you own but it takes allot of property to satisfy a LGD. I had 2 on about 120 acres and they still would roam and they were spayed. They were raised with the goats and have even killed coyotes etc but they do like to roam at night. I finally chained one in the pen at night to stop the roaming. Not everyone has enough room for a LGD.
    I have seen a vet fix a close hip fractured femur on a foal and a large dog, why not a goat?You would have to sling her for about 4 weeks if they are able to put in a plate and screws maybe less.You might talk to the vet about giving her a lutalyse shot to stop the pregnancy because of the calcium it takes out of the body. She will need it for healing. Just a thought...Hope your day is better!
  13. shawhee

    shawhee Member


    :down I am so sorry. This has got to be tuff. Keep your chin up, and anytime you go to court ask for the full extent of monetary compensation. All they can do is say no and / or reduce it. But if you sit down and make a list of what everything is worth; worth of animal; loss of use etc; loss of kids. Put some numbers to them and ask for it all. I went to court on a horse case and really did not think I would get everything but I put it all on there. I got it ALL plus some additional the judge added. I was shocked.

    Anyway, let us know what happens I would like to know if the vet can repair this.

  14. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

    Tammy, you're one brave lady! I like the distance afforded by a loaded weapon. Paint ball gun is a great idea!

    Kelly, you and your precious doe are in our prayers.
  15. Ravens Haven

    Ravens Haven New Member

    So sorry to hear this Kelly. If I were you I would take the advice of Vicki for sure. The same here in my county, I shoot and ask questions later. I lost a herd of three when I first got started almost 6 years ago, so I don't take kind to neighbor's dogs at all.
    You and your doe will be in our prayers.
  16. Sheryl

    Sheryl New Member

    I feel you pain. I am so sorry. I came home from work one day,and my beautiful german shepherd had gotten out of her pen, ran upto the tip of the hill to the goat pen, and ripped up and in half 11 baby goats. I when I came home she greeted me with blood all over her, when I went to check I found them. I could hear their screams in my head when I saw them although they were dead and I wasn't there. I put her back in her pen, went inside the house, did not even change clothes got the 22 rifle out of the closet when out to the pen and dropped her dead where she stood, wagging tail and all. I knew my husband wouldn't do it. And I knew if she would do that to baby goats, she would do it to a small child so there was no giving her away. I cried for 6 weeks. To this day it still makes me sad.

    I also shot off the leg of a neighbor's dog after it destroyed my show rabbits for the third time. That's when I learned if you shoot them, don't tell, just bury them!

    I am so sorry for you. I know it is heart breaking. I hope for the best for you and your doe.

  17. Leo

    Leo New Member

    <<Hugs>> I'm so sorry you and your doe have to go through this. I understand what you've gone through, it was years ago,and mine didn't make it but her back end was ripped off to the hip bone. You got some good advise. I hope your doe is doing better.
  18. cindy

    cindy Member

    Dear Kelly,

    Sorry to hear what you are going thru. :sniffle People don't realize just how special these goats can be to us. I will not criticize you for not having a LGD. I don't have one either. I tried, but he kept running off with whom ever was jogging on the road and going home with them. I use llamas. Llamas are excellent guardians. I have 2 neutered males. They are very protective of their pasture and goats. They hate coyote's, dogs, and hunters. They don't really care about fox or raccoons, so if those are problems for you, you may want to try something else. My neighbors dog got out (my neighbor is real trouble...raises mean dogs and animal control and the DA won't do anything about her) and was trying to kill my baby and adult goats. One llama herded everyone back to the barn while the other went on the attack and injured the dog. If she hadn't come and dragged her dog over the fence, the llama would have killed it! :D My other neighbors watched the whole thing and were just amazed with how well the llama's did!

    I hope everything turns out OK for your doe. I had a doe that had 3 feet. She lost an foot to an injury. She did really well...once she was healed...she hobbled along on her 3 feet, was an excellent mother, and ended up dying of old age.

  19. lyceum

    lyceum Guest

    So sorry to hear about your poor baby. Definitely agree that you should be compensated for medical bills, etc. loss of future offspring. I would also get $$ for whatever she is going to need during recovery, post surgery if that is needed. (Pain meds, bandage materials, antibiotics, post op vet bills,etc) Try to get an estimate from your vet on what post op charges would be. Make sure that you get it in writing that the neigbor is going to pay vet bills.

    Also, we have a 3 legged 3 year old Lamancha Victory. (Front leg was amputated due to a horrible bread) She was milked for awhile until she was dry after surgery. I am getting ready to breed her for the first time since she lost the leg. I am breeding her to a ND buck for this time. She gets around just fine and has never had a problem. I also have a ND buck with only 3 legs (back leg amputated) who sired kids post surgery.

    Be sure that the vet knows that goats are very sensitive to anesthesia and sedation. Victory actually stopped breathing on the table and it took a good 45 minutes- and hour for her to wake up. The ND had a hard time waking up too.

    I can't believe that they kept the dog after the incident with the rabbits. We have had up to 300 high end Mini Rex too. To lose even one is too many when you are paying $200 and up for the good ones.

  20. pokyone42

    pokyone42 New Member

    I am SO sorry for your trauma. This is such a needless tragedy. I hope your precious doe will recover. So sad... How is your girl? I cried through this whole thread.. just imagining if it was one of MY sweet goats... or, MY dog, in the case of the German Shepherd........ At least the neighbor seems to be trying to take responsibility for her dog's actions...she admitted it, and came to you... instead of denying it all....... Good luck...