[FaithNJoyOberhasli]

Posting for another friend. I've directed them here, but they aren't signed up yet. Here's the story:

First freshener kidded a week ago with two big bucks after a very long labor. As of Tuesday morning, the placenta was still not out (some membrane was hanging), and milk production was very low, so they started thinking uterine infection and took her to the vet. Vet did an x-ray and saw what did appear to be the placenta still inside. They did a uterine flush on her and told them to do 5 days of penicillin. Things seemed to improve while on the penicillin, milk supply improving (but still low), doe acting normal again, etc. I got an email from them last night saying that after being done with the penicillin for a day, milk supply was WAY back down again (8 oz at last night's milking--they are bottlefeeding the babies, so that is really all the milk there was), and temp was 105.1. So, I hit the forum to help them figure out what to do. :crazy So glad you all are here!

I'm thinking they need a better antibiotic like excenel (and/or they weren't told a high enough and long enough round of penicillin), banamine for the fever, Bo-Se to boost immunity while doing all this, probably CMPK wouldn't hurt--what else?

Also, would you suggest lute and oxy to get the cervix open and contractions to get the placenta out at this point, or leave it alone and just try to deal with whatever infection is going on? If you would try to get it out, how long after giving lute should the cervix open so you can give the oxy, and from that point, how long before contrax would be strong enough to get rid of the thing? Would you do a pelvic at that point and try to help (gently!!) remove it? An approximate timeline on the lutalyse/oxytocin/pelvic (when to do each step) would be extremely helpful. I assume you'd do an oxytet flush after that? She kidded a week ago today. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

I have a suspect in the cause of this, but I'd like to know your thoughts. I know they baled some really nice clover hay from their property last year, and I think that's what they've been feeding (not sure though: they might have traded it for alfalfa, in which case my theory is shot). As I've been reading and reading on here about hypocalcemia, I'm wondering if the clover has enough calcium. If not, wouldn't that possibly explain the very long labor and retained placenta? BTW, they did do Bo-Se about 2 weeks pre-kidding, and they copper bolus, etc.

This is their first kidding, and their other doe is due in June or July, so if there's a root cause, hopefully there is still time to find and fix it before the next one kids.

:thankyou2
Michelle

 

[[email protected]]

From what I've heard, clover is good hay.

I also thought Lute would open and expell, but it was in another thread that it won't. ? But then someone else posted somewhere that that is what the vet gave their doe--Lute and Oxy--with a retained placenta, I think. So now I'm back to wondering about it.

I would have thought a vet would do more to get the placenta out? Just a flush and pen? I'd have them check back with the vet and maybe at least Oxytocin. Seems vet would have been more worried about her expelling that and then also working on infection.

 

[MF-Alpines]

Unless they are well-versed in AI, I would not suggest lute and oxytocin. Lute will only work if there is a corpus luteum (CL). Will there be a CL? Probably not. Even so, lute will not make the cervix go wide open like it is when they have just freshened. It will soften it, but you'd really have to know what you're doing to insert a hose in there to actually get to the uterus to do a flush.

 

[MF-Alpines]

But Denise, the doe kidded a week ago. I would not give oxytocin on a closed cervix. And it being a week now, that cervix is certainly closed, right?

 

[[email protected]]

IDK. :/ I thought you didn't want to give Oxy during labor cuz you don't want the doe pushing kids against a closed cervix. But Oxy will also dialate. It's recommended all the time to give after delivery to help expell *stuff* and I've seen it said to give even for days after. The cervix should be closed within 4 hrs or so. So for how long after kidding? IDK Have never heard to not give AFTER a certain time frame.

 

[FaithNJoyOberhasli]

Sorry! That's an important detail I forgot. The vet did have them do, I think, 1 cc of oxy on Tuesday, so 2 days post-kidding. Yes, lots of oxy, and I would presume, a not-still-open cervix. They didn't give lute or anything to help open first. My friends said it seemed to cause contractions a little bit, but nothing major, and still no placenta as far as they can tell.

I suppose it's possible that she did eventually drop it and eat it, but there still seems to be the infection going on.

So, would you recommend just working on the infection and not trying to mess with the placenta at this point? And am I right on what to do about the infection?

Sorry to have forgotten that big detail. I'm super short on sleep at the moment, and it's really, really showing! :needcoffee

Thanks!
Michelle

 

[[email protected]]

I think I would go back to the vet for another flush if she's still got infection in there. Didn't say what kind of antibiotic was used in the first one. I think what's usually used is a tetracycline. ? Not much help here with this, but third party is hard to figure. I've always went to a stronger antibiotic if one didn't start working, but that was with pneumonia.

I'd also have them get some store bought milk for the kids if she's not milking enough for them.

 

[FaithNJoyOberhasli]

I agree, it was probably oxytet in the flush from the vet, and they are feeding vitamin D milk to the babies.

They've already been to the vet twice with this doe in the past week and a half, once during the Very Long Labor, and then on Tuesday. If they can manage it at home from here, I'm sure they'd prefer that!

But, gotta do what you gotta do.



Michelle