Respiratory issues in goats- Vet not sure what else to do

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by thatfiel, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. thatfiel

    thatfiel New Member

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    We purchased 2 bucks in October. I noticed they had snotty noses when we brought them home but I really did not think much about it unfortunately. Then my other 4 goats got the same thing. Snotty nose, coughing, no fever. The vet has sent antibiotics (Excede two times, and Baytril 100), and I have also given wormed them 4 times (Safe-guard, Dumor goat wormer, and Ivomec plus two times). I still have 4 that continue to have snotty noses, and cough. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Tara :help Please
     
  2. thatfiel

    thatfiel New Member

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    Sorry but I forgot to mention they have also been treated with Corid because they ended up with Coccidia, and I have given them Vitamin B Complex to help keep them strong.
     

  3. H Diamond Farms

    H Diamond Farms New Member

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  4. Ashley

    Ashley New Member

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    I would try some garlic. It is very broad spectrum, more than the drug antibiotics, plus it encourages the probiotics. You can either chop it up/process in the food processer and mix with a little molasses and give that to them, or get the granules and mix with water/honey etc. and give it that way. For a buck I would give a bulb 2-3 times per day or if giving granules I'd give 1 tablespoon 2-3 times a day. When you see it totally clear up, keeping giving it for another 5 days.

    What are they eating? What kind of mineral do they get? Copper boluses?
     
  5. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    As you have found out, treating with antibiotics does nothing for pasturella like you likely have. Their immunity is keeping it at bay or the antibiotic you gave kept it at low enough levels not to become fever, lung scarring full blow pneumonia. Without a fever, using antibiotics simply kills rumen and intestinal flora, and with nearly all their immunity in their intestines, and all of the flora to 'eat' their hay and grain comes from the rumen, using antibiotics when you don't need to, hurts the goats more than simply boosting their immunity. Bo-se, vitamin C, B vitamins etc..

    Making sure that their environment is not adding to the problems, dusty hay, moldy hay, hay fed on the ground, go sit in the barn, breath the air at their nose level, does it smell like ammonia, is it hard to breath? Is your butt wet when you get up? All of this contributes to pneumonia and overgrowth of pasturella in the nose due to humidity, stress, over crowding and chemical pneumonia from our barn floors.

    None of the wormers you used will help the worms that you have, that would cause the runny noses and cough...you like us in our humid south north of Houston...although I do use Ivermectin Plus this time of year for liverflukes...you wormer of choice is going to be Cydectin cattle pouron, given at 1cc per 22 pounds orally.

    In goatkeeping 101 is the Famacha chart, an anemia chart, check your goats eyelids against the photos on the chart...how do your does stack up....if they have anemia than what you are dealing with is likely HC/Hamoncous Contortus/Barber pole worms.. Otherwise you are doing everything you can, warm dry bedding to snuggle down into, good feed, good hay, water, loose minerals and time. Vicki
     
  6. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Are they eating, drinking, pooing, peeing, playing?

    Then I would

    a) worm with Cydectin
    b) Go with the garlic as listed above (garlic is also anti-viral). Antibiotics won't affect a virus. We have also used Golden Seal, a very potent antibiotic/anti-viral, which used in conjunction with garlic enhances both.

    I mention virus because last year we had a Boer doe get a snotty nose, slightly off-feed, low grade temperature (103.8). Tried antibiotics - nope. Eventually got very frustrated and called a long-time goat genius/friend and she gently hinted that perhaps this was a virus. Light bulb moment. Treated as above and all cleared up. Did provide the support of B-complex and Vita C as well (which I had done before with the antibiotics that didn't work).

    Camille
     
  7. Aja-Sammati

    Aja-Sammati Active Member

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    Have you done a swab and had it cultured? When you have treated more than once, you really need to make sure you are treating with the correct drug...this would tell you if you were dealing with a virus, also. Do the supportive therapy, but use you dollar wisely instead of jumping from drug to drug.
     
  8. thatfiel

    thatfiel New Member

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    Thank you for all the posts. I will definitely try the wormer and garlic. You have all been so helpful. Thanks again. Tara
     
  9. Nikki99

    Nikki99 New Member

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    I'm a newbie to goats and to this forum so if I don't post correctly, I'm sorry in advance, and please bear with me.
    I see that this thread is from several months ago but I'm just curious, how are your goats doing now? Did these suggested treatments work?
    I brought home 2 wethers the mid to end of September from a breeder in Or. When we picked them up, they both had a snotty nose and a cough. She gave them an antibiotic injection and told us they'd be fine in a week or so. Well, Jester got better, he's just fine. Blitz took longer but did start to show signs of improvement, he no longer had a snotty nose and was only coughing a little. Then, our nights started cooling off and his cough came back stronger and his snotty nose was back too.
    I haven't done anything for them yet, because I want to make sure what I do, is right. I had planned on giving him antibiotics but then read that if it's a virus, the antibiotics wont do any good. I don't know if this is just a little cold, nothing to worry about, or if this is something more serious.
    He's eating/drinking just fine, he's active (not very playful but he's eager to go outside every morning and he loves attention so he follows me everywhere he can). His poop is normal, dark little balls, his breathing seems normal. I'm not sure if he has a fever.
    He was born July 28, 2012. His shot record shows on 7/28 he was given 1/2cc Bose. 8/12 he was given 1cc CDT- 1cc Valbazen.
    8/12 he was also given Eprinex and Albon. And on 9/12 he was given 1cc of CDT- 1/4cc 200+. I am not sure what some of these are and they told us he wouldn't need anything else. Does this look/sound right?

    Thanks!
     
  10. informative

    informative New Member

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    Any chance it is allergies?

    Has anyone tried the Airborne tablets on goats? Those include some other stuff which is excellent immune boosters like Isatis Root and Echinacea too. I also bought a bag of Isatis root powder from http://www.1stchineseherbs.com/Woad_root.html and often blend an extra teaspoon of it in our Airborne when I whip some up for colds and flu season.
     
  11. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    I would start with taking a temp. It is easy to do. Get a thermometer, digital is the fastest to use. I put a little bit of lube on the end and insert about 1/2" into the rectum. When it beeps, you'll have the temp. Normal temp is about 101, however goats can vary somewhat depending upon the temp of their surroundings. 99 or below and I'd be worried and anything over 103 I'd be worried.

    I would also get a fecal sample and have your vet check it if you don't run fecals yourself. That way, you will know what parasites you are dealing with and can treat accordingly. I am guessing that little bit of wormer and only one cocci treatment isn't enough and if he's not feeling well, you want to ensure you don't get an overload of worms or cocci on top of whatever he may be developing. If it were me, I'd worm both the goats anyway with something better than Eprinex which is a pour-on. I'd use Cydectin or Ivermectin or perhaps even Ivermectin Plus. There are people on this board who are from your area who may be better able to suggest what you should use for your area of the country.

    In the meatime, high doses of Vitamin C helps with snotty noses. You can get tablets or powders/crystals to sprinkle on the grain (if he's getting grain).

    Good luck, keep us posted, and welcome to the forum!
     
  12. Nikki99

    Nikki99 New Member

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    Thanks everyone for the info. I'm putting together a shopping list now for my trip to town tomorrow.
    I'm glad you mentioned grain because that's something that I'm a little confused about. I've read that bucks are not supposed to get grain because it can cause health problems for them. Is this the same for wethers? Or just intact males?
    I was also confused about what grain is exactly? I hear about grain and goat ration and goat feed. Is this all the same thing? I purchased Purina Goat Feed from our feed store and they get 1c for breakfast and 1c for dinner between the 2 of them.
     
  13. dragonlair

    dragonlair New Member

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    Grain is the plain grain, no additives. It can be whole, crimped, cracked, steamed/flaked, rolled etc.

    The other things you buy that are pelleted or textured are not grains, but are called either feed or concentrates. They contain grains and a variety of other things.

    I feed by weight. I weigh out each feed as I open a new bag and go by the pound. Each type of feed has different weights per cup, so I just do the pound because a pound is a pound. Much easier for my feeble mind!
     
  14. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Being wethers, your 1 cup of Purina Goat Feed is fine. Just make sure they have plenty of hay to eat as they get older. I would give them 1 cup to share, morning and night, what I do is feed it with equal parts of alfalfa pellets, a pile of loose minerals in another feeder, and grass hay, clean water. Vicki
     
  15. Laverne

    Laverne New Member

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    Since they are only 2 1/2 mos. old I'd get them on coccidiosis prevention and worming, which is getting a wormer and a coccisidiostat, every 20 days, until they are about 5-6 mos. old. Or have routine fecals done to see how it's going. Both of these can stunt growth. They may have been with adult goats before you got them so they would be infected. Here is some kid care protocol http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=2077.0

    You mentioned he got a shot of 200? Only one shot of an antibiotic won't do anything if there is really something brewing. Especially the LA200 or Biomycin Tetracyclines, they need multiple days of treatment. But with the vitamin C he'll probably be fine.
     
  16. Nikki99

    Nikki99 New Member

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    Thanks so much for all the help everyone! I've only been a member here for a few short days and you all have already taught me a ton!! I went to the feed store today with my list of stuff and actually felt like I knew what I was doing, thanks to all the help here! I got a good jump start on a first aid kit and some other important basics that I didn't have. The dewormers I got are Ivermectin pour on for cattle (hopefully this is the right one) and Safe-guard liquid oral for goats.
    I do have a question about the vitamin C, is this just the regular vitamin C found in the supplement isle at your local grocery store or is there a different one for animals? I didn't see any at the feed store so I'm assuming that vitamin C is vitamin C....hopefully I didn't assume incorrectly. Lol.

    Thank you Dragonlair, there's just so much info out there, sometimes it's hard to find just a simple, plain ole English response!

    Thanks Vicki, they have 24 hr access to hay, minerals and clean water. I've also seen several times that having baking soda for them is a good idea to help with tummy upsets so I'm going to get that out there too. I've read that alfalfa shouldn't be given to them b/c it can cause serious issues, even the breeder said it's a no no. I'm guessing you would disagree, since you give yours alfalfa pellets?

    Laverne, I was thinking the same thing about the single dose of antibiotic! But then I second guessed myself and thought, what do I know, I've never had any type of farm animal before, maybe they're different!?! D'oh!
    I wish I would've grabbed a cocci preventative today, but I didn't. Dang it! They were definitely w/adult goats, a huge herd of them, maybe 50 give or take a few, they were both dam raised. The family participates in their local 4H and the sales of the goats is how the teenage daughter pays her car ins. I thought that cocci caused diarrhea though? Their stools are perfect little solid balls and Jester (our other baby) seems just fine, it's just Blitz coughing with a snotty nose.
     
  17. Laverne

    Laverne New Member

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    In the link I had in my post, scrolling down is the section on kid rearing and if they are in with adults they get Cydectin which is Quest horse wormer also, it is cheaper if you just have a couple goats. The Quest dosage 1cc per 100 pounds, so for your little Nigerians it would be about 1/8 of a cc for 12.5 lbs. of goat. It would be good to weigh them. Mix it up well, there's a reason for mixing it also, and fill it with your finger into a syringe to meter it out accurately. Sorry but ivermectin is not given to young goats, under 6 mos., since it can cross the undeveloped blood brain barrier and there is a possibility of neurological problems. Safeguard is not an effective wormer, there is worm resistance, more than likely, so risky using it.
    With the cocci prevention, preventing diarrhea is the key. Once diarrhea appears then that indicates intestinal damage, which is to be avoided. Even without diarrhea there can be too many Cocci and damage and stunting can occur. So you need to get some Corid and give it every 21 days to halt the lifecycle.