Removing horn bud at birth question

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by leslieh, Dec 22, 2007.

  1. leslieh

    leslieh New Member

    104
    0
    0
    Ok, got called this a.m. to help a friend with a difficult birth. Neither of us had the strength to pull, so called another friend and her husband for help.

    He was able to deliver a hugh single nubian buck. Well, hmmm, when the doe's owner went for meds, my buddy and I decided since we couldn't "hurt" him, we'd investigate. ;)

    I never did see the horn bud. I cut just the skin but it wouldn't peel back. I cut deeper, and tried. I wound up cutting pretty deep, I'd say between 1/8th and 1/4th before I could peel it back. Then we found nothing. And before you say it, I don't think he was polled. He did have swirls. We did find the "bump" and a small point that looked like where the bud would have sat.

    So tell me. How far down did you go? Did I not go down deep enough? Or too deep and the bud was in the layers that I peeled back? My friend and I couldn't find the bud.

    Our other thought was that even though he was hugh, he was slightly premature. The doe had started an udder, but not like it should have been. And he really didn't have the horn "bumps", which a buck usually does have "something" at birth. Maybe the bud hadn't developed yet?

    So, help me out some here. My daughter said that we'd better wait on the live kids, but we'd definatelly look again if we run across another opportunity. Which I hope we don't!!

    Any thoughts on what I did wrong?

    Leslie
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    0
    0
    Gosh I have never heard of cutting at birth to remove buds. some of my bucks never have buds at birth. also if he had all his hair , you could feel the teeth even if not protruded he probably wasn't premature.
     

  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    0
    0
    The ones I did, it was right under the skin. It was like cartilage, a quarter circle of cartilage.

    Although not born with horns or even protruding buds, I can still feel hornbuds under the skin even of little kids, tiny pointy tops...so yes if you cut into it, yes you did peel the part back you should have flipped out. Vicki
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    0
    0
    interesting and learned something
     
  5. leslieh

    leslieh New Member

    104
    0
    0
    Gotcha. Ok, so I did go too deep. I had gotten all the way down to the pointy top. Hmmm, you just cut the skin and not into the meat, right? The skin didn't want to peel. Did it peel easy for you? I wish I had that kid back, to check this out further. I had seriously thought about trying with the next boy born, but after seeing I don't have a clue, I think I'll not attempt it on the "live" fellows until I can experiment better.

    Hey, Vicki, next time grab a camera, and maybe if it isn't a good idea to post them here, maybe p.m. I'm a visual learner!

    Thanks. If you do try this again this year. Keep us posted.

    We disbudded our two this a.m. before I got the call. All of my crew is for cutting them out at birth. We hate disbudding. Although, what I did to the dead baby, maybe I'd better stick with disbudding!

    Leslie
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    0
    0
    I am for sure doing this this coming spring. Just like when you disbud, the first burn you can then peel off the hair, skin and pop the top off the hornbud, then burn to a pretty copper ring. With the scalpel you are just cutting through the skin and hair, to get under that little top you pop off...like it's a seed that isn't rooted yet. Vicki
     
  7. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

    1,008
    0
    0
    I am gathering the buck was dead. is it possible that it he had been dead long enough to change how things such as peeling skin, etc would feel?
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    0
    0
    Do you do this right at birth and is it less painful for the kid than disbudding?? Vicki do you do this on all babies??
     
  9. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho New Member

    829
    0
    0
    So if you cut out that little horn bud, does that absolutely guarantee no scurs on bucklings? Sounds like a great idea to me....

    Tracy
     
  10. leslieh

    leslieh New Member

    104
    0
    0
    I don't know how long he'd been dead before we got him out. I know she didn't let the doe labor long before she called for help. I sure couldn't get the skin to peel, but I really didn't know what I was doing either.

    I found this link this morning. It was for calves, but I found it very interesting and with good diagrams.

    http://www.mla.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/...cattle_branding_castration_dehorningJun07.pdf

    Go to page 22 and 23.

    Vicki, did you shave the hair off first before you cut?

    Leslie
     
  11. Truly

    Truly New Member

    344
    0
    0
    Good article. Lots to ponder.
     
  12. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    0
    0
    re visiting this Please Vicki explain further on disbudding via cutting do you shave the head first? etc.
     
  13. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

    876
    0
    0
    Please Please please take pictures whoever does this next.

    Thanks,

    Patty
     
  14. Truly

    Truly New Member

    344
    0
    0
    Yes, I'd like to see pictures too. I said I was gonna do this, but when it came down to it I chickened out. :sigh

    Would love more details and pics.

    Thanx
     
  15. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    0
    0
    I am just thinking that on a newborn this would be easier on the kid and me too, but really want to know how it is done exactly
     
  16. KUrby

    KUrby New Member

    165
    0
    0
    Hey Vicki, if you want, we can come help you with the 1st disbudding and I can take pictures along the way and we can post a disbud 101 with pictures if you want?
    Karen
     
  17. Theresa

    Theresa New Member

    983
    0
    0
    Pictures would be great. This really does sound better then disbudding if we can all get the hang of it.
     
  18. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Just had a long chat with my vet. about trying this method.........he was right in line with what Vicki has said, and thought this might be a better way also...
    He did say that we should be extra careful in keeping the proceedure as clean as possible. His comment was that iodine would probably work well to disinfect the area. He also thought that using the hot iron (a little) on the spots after bud is removed would help also to stop any bleeding, and would help to control possible infection.

    My first kids are due in 2 weeks.....geez, I'm really hoping one of you try this before now and then.
     
  19. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

    993
    0
    0
    First of all, what would be "a little"? If I'm going to have to heat that iron up at all, I'll just wait out those 20 seconds, and burn just someones head! :lol
     
  20. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    0
    0
    that is what I was thinking too Stacy:)