Quick question about AI.....

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by MiddleRiver, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

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    Sitting around waiting for kids and news of kids reserved, getting antsy, and it's only -25 without the windchill, so a bit too cold to go play outside i guess :sigh

    Though i should hopefully have another nice young buck this spring ( so i'll have two this fall ), i really do want to get going with AI too. It will surely be at least a couple years before i can buy a tank, but would also like some practice before i invest like that too. So i was thinking, if i bought AI equipment to inseminate ( and gain practice ), and wanted to breed 1-2 does per year AI, would it be possible like many do in the horse world and have semen shipped when they are in heat and ready for breeding ?

    I would chart the does cycle ( or chemically bring them in ), let the semen owner/shipper know about when she will be ready, then have the shipper ( if they have one ) shipped overnight or the day before she comes into heat and is ready for breeding, breed her, and then send the shipper back ? So the shipper would be here for 1-4 days. Would that even be possible in the goat world ?

    Also, when it comes to having my buck collected, do i have to wait until i buy a tank, or would one of the semen companies that collect store for me ?

    Shoot, gotta run UPS is here with my Jeffers order :+) Thanks !
     
  2. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Highly unlikely. We use frozen semen to inseminate our does. Your doe very well may not be in heat by the time you got the semen shipped to you.

    Most breeders or semen companies want their shipper back the next day.

    I don't know of goat semen collectors that will store semen for you. Cattle studs will usually.

    I'd buy a tank if I were you. I am getting a third tank this summer... this one has the capacity of 5000+ straws which is bigger than the two I have now that hold 2200 straws. :)

    Sara
     

  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Chrystyna, your best bet is to find folks with your breed, join your association, join the yahoo group for Alpines. When folks get to know each other it can bend some of the rules that Sarah is talking about.

    You can also rent shippers in some areas, and since they do hold the cold, you could with the help of someone motivated to sell you semen, get the tank back to you so you can use the semen and send back the tank or ?? Also spend some time talking to locals, someone has a tank for cattle or sheep around you, you just don't know them. And most don't even charge for you to keep straws in their tank. I even have an offer to just bring the doe and use their sheep stand....I am passing on that one but it was a nice offer.

    You can find really good used tanks at times, $300 and even $250 for tanks that will hold more straws than most of us will ever use. Vicki
     
  4. Haglerfarm

    Haglerfarm New Member

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    You might check with your vet or a dairy or cattle farmer near you. They often have tanks and might let you store a little in them. I know the ones by me offered. I bought a tank instead. I bought a new tank and then bought an older tank to take to buck collections or if I need to pick up or deliver semen. My Genex dealer sold me the older tank very reasonable. So you might be able to find one to tide you over until you can buy a better one.
    I also have semen stored at a bull stud. The fee is very reasonable. They will also ship. I am lucky that my nitrogen guy goes by there from time to time and will pick up semen or take semen there for me.
    Les
     
  5. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Where in Wisconsin are you? I might be able to refer you to some breeders in your area that would be willing to help.

    Also, for most people a small tank will hold all the semen they will ever use. However, that quickly changes when you start collecting your bucks like you are considering. One small tank was plenty until my first buck collection.

    Sara
     
  6. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

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    Thanks everyone :+) Sara, you gonna sell one of your smaller used tanks ? lol.

    So it would be possible to do it this way IF you know somebody well enough so they are comfortable loaning out their shipper for a few days ? So far my girls cycle regularly and come back into heat when it's expected, so i could like order the shipment on like 11/15 if she is due to come into heat 11/17 ( or something like that ), i understand the problem with barrowing a shipper for a few days, i'm not sure i'd be willing to do that either with out a huge deposit - they sure are pricey !

    Oh well, it was just a thought. I sure do want my own tank though, it would be nice to go semen shopping and have my boy(s) safe and sound in there too. I have asked my vet, he doesn't have a tank or he said he would store for me :+) I've posted wanted adds locally looking to rent space in a tank with no luck too - and i don't personally know any dairy farmers around here either :+(
     
  7. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

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    Sara - i am by Superior, WI/Duluth, MN. If you know of ANYBODY that might be willing to help with storing and/or letting me learn from them and are close to me please let me know - Thanks !
     
  8. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Hey, that may be an option. :)

    Select Sires fills my tanks for me and I also purchased all of my tanks from them new at just a little over cost. If you let them know you are looking for a good used tank they will contact you when they get one in.

    I'll do some digging for you. :)

    Sara
     
  9. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

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    Thanks Sara, please let me know if you decide to sell one, or if you find somebody or info that could help me :+) Stay warm !
     
  10. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    IF you don't go overboard and buy 10 bucks. I had to start charging space rental because one of my tanks had so many other people's semen, there wasn't room for mine. 1 straw of semen takes up just as much space as 10 straws of semen. It's not the semen, it's the canes. I have some semen double caned because there was one straw of semen or two on a cane.That tank is FULL and the other is getting REAL close. One tank I leave open to use for a transport tank when I'm going to Convention or Nationals or am paid to recieve semen and inseminate does with it. They order what is used at that insemination, no storage.
    I had to buy another tank to have room for semen from my bucks.
    I've even dumped bucks to make room for better bucks because of no space. I can't possibly take any more semen for storage and have asked those storing to consider buying their own tanks. I've taught them to AI, they can do it.

    Something you've not thought about.....what happens if your does cycle like clockwork, BUT UPS/FedEx doesn't? Then you have a shipper that will generally only hold for 10-14 days and does out of heat, that won't be back in for 21.
    You also need to consider the distance you are going to have to transport semen from your stored semen to your does.

    Best bet...like they said, find a close neighbor that will let you store semen (be considerate of their space & the money it takes to fill that tank) or have friends that want to co-op a tank, or buy a tank.

    Like Sara, I'm strongly considering just getting rid of two tanks and buying one that will have the capacity that is needed by me!
    Kaye
     
  11. Bilrite Farms

    Bilrite Farms Guest

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    Chrystyna, I am fairly new to horses and we aren't breeders so when I sat in on the equine reproduction lecture at a conference this last weekend I sure learned a lot. Of course, there is a lot of things that are similar for all animals with AI but I had to ask someone else at my table what they were talking about when they showed the Styrofoam Equitaner shipper and the cooled shipped sample that just looked like a really big syringe to me. I think it it is amazing that they are able to overnight ship to the mare like that and without all the hassles of liquid nitrogen. In fact I think they said they had better success with that type of AI than the frozen stuff. I was wondering if goats would ever get to that point. Of course, horses aren't goats and there is huge money in stallion collection and equine reproduction but amazing stuff none the less.

    Trisha
     
  12. MiddleRiver

    MiddleRiver New Member

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    Trisha - Thats exactly what i was thinking about for my goats, i've breed horses before, taken equine AI/reproduction classes, but never have done anything other then hand breeding with goats, so i was wondering why we couldn't do this. I forgot totally about the styrofoam $30-40 shippers they sell for horse semen - i wonder if i couldn't just buy one of them and send it to the seller before hand with an approx. date i will need it back with my order lol !

    It sure would be nice if goat AI becomes more advanced/easier for everybody, but until then i guess i have to figure out how to approch DH about a tank :+)
     
  13. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    :biggrin Horses stay in heat longer than goats.
    Kaye
     
  14. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho Member

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    :yeahthat You have a week to deal with shipping horse semen. With a goat you *might* have 48 hours.

    Don't be afraid to get a tank! Heck, I had an extra one I got off eBay for a few hundred dollars and then resold later. I wish NOW I would have kept it! But it held really well.

    I have 3 tanks now - my main at home tank, a 10 Liter travel tank with a 100 day hold time, and my shipper. I like my bucks that live in the tank sooooo much better than the ones in the pens :)

    Tracy
     
  15. Odeon

    Odeon New Member

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    :yeahthat

    I agree with Tracy! I love my frozen boys, would rather parade my tank around a ring, than show my live boys! :rofl

    Seriously tho, the prices of semen tanks are really quite affordable. There are several that you can buy NEW for around $500. Used tanks can go as high as $350-$400 for tanks that are 30 years old. If you can find a GOOD used tank for $250, JUMP on it!

    Ken in Idaho
     
  16. chewie

    chewie New Member

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    timely thread. in looking into getting a super buck and realizing i cannot afford to, i would like to AI. hubby has a superb AI rating with cattle, and altho i know its way different, i am certain we could do this. i'd be so much better off. he'd like to get his own AI equip anyhow (for cattle) so he could do sideline work besides his ranching job. he is all for doing goat AI as well.

    do those who AI still keep a buck to check heat? or go with cders? what are some things that make it tough other than the short cycle time? i am going to search on this one, but any info offered would be great. thanks
     
  17. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho Member

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    Chris, have you thought about co-owning a buck with another breeder? Or do you have a relationship with another breeder that might consider leasing you a buck?

    The thing with goat AI is that just not all of them will breed artificially. I had two that I looked into this year and went -- no way. Both of them had weird cervix structure that I just could not get into. I know Hi-Society was bred AI by Jonathan every year of her life - and never took. She live breeds just fine.

    Another thought would just to be to keep a young buckling every spring out of your best doe in case you don't get them settled via AI. Then get rid of him once they are all confirmed.

    I think the real trick with AI is watching those does like a hawk and knowing their cycles. I have several that I know from years past will cycle in and out in 24 hours. Others will go for 3 days. Some you will hardly know are in heat. I had one that didn't hang at the fence talking to the buck at all -- she just barely twitched her tail. I successfully AI'd her this year. :)

    Tracy
     
  18. chewie

    chewie New Member

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    that's part of this goat business i have trouble with--so very few in my area that are any more than older 'farmer types' (please dont' get me wrong, their great folks, but...) when getting started a year ago (i'm new at this too) i was pointed to a family with toggs. and they don't even KNOW about cae? not sure how that can be but that is one of the bigger one near me, the other is a breeder with a huge herd (400+) that has rampant cae but tells me there is no way around it. she is also the only one within a long ways that can AI, and i doubt she'd show me cuz i turned down a purchase from her.

    i may have found a guy with a saanen due this spring, i hope to get a buckling. part is that i dont' have room for too many, was hoping to reduce the need for keeping the bucks as much. this year they are all bred nubian, but now that i am learning more, i am hesitant to keep any bucklings from any of this breeding, and maybe send him on his way as well. i'm trying to upgrade, just dont' have the money to get the buck i really want this year! once i can get a breeding via normal or AI, i do plan to keep the best buckling.

    interesting about the doe who won't AI but settles with the natural way. i did find i could 'predict' the cycles tho., i have some that do the 3 day thing, one that is silent, and the others did in between, but i learned to read them all. DH is VERY good at this type stuff, so i just thought between us, we could get this done. its still in the thinking stage tho.