Pros of going in on every I changed my ways...

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by MayLOC, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

    hope Vicki M. doesn't mind me having copied this comment of her's from another post...
    "Please folks, if you are standing around watching why not just stick your hand in and figure out what is going on? Did I not get my xray goggles that some of you got that you can stand over the doe and see presentation?"

    But I wanted to say that I have read these words of her countless times now and I thought...Well...Why not! I put those words to good use this kidding season.

    The mentality I was always taught regarding the cattle is quite different than what I now believe for goats. Our cows are not calving in corralls, usually not tame enough to walk up to during calving w/o disturbing, and are not accustomed to having more than one calf on a regular basis (which of course presents different problems). We only interfere w/a hand when they have been going too long or there is obviously trouble. And of course we are not there for most births in the pastures anyhow.

    Now, with goats... they are all in pens, they are all tame enough that they do not mind you present during kidding. You most likely have due dates on them. And a quick check before and after can save all your brain cells that would have been consumed with worry over whether or not things were coming out right and whether or not everything came out in the end.

    In the past I would stick a hand in if I thought there might be a concern. But this year every goat has gotten a hand in before and sometimes during and always after.

    Last week I watched a FF with all signs of impending labor right on her due date and when things were getting real imenent, stuck a hand in and found 4 little feet and no head. I was able to push the bugger back in and turn him around which was difficult with the doe contracting, but had it gone longer it would have been much more difficult or impossible.

    A few days ago I had a FF straining on her side several days early of her due date. I gloved up and lubed up and checked to find a closed cervix. Had I not done that I probably would have worried that something major was up...unprogressive labor...dead kid...ect... After that, she went on until yesterday morning w/ no other signs of labor and seemed very glooby and had been tight bagged for 12 hours. Gloved up and there were feet awaiting my hands but no pushing.

    It is easy and personally for me saves a lot of wondering and worry.

    love the shoulder length gloves also!

    Just wanted to share my thoughts on this and thanks to those who changed my ways.
  2. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

    Great post Kassi!

    A little assistance can also make it easier for the doe to kid, thus saving her energy and stress. Even our Boers are glad to have us there and are hoping for a little help!


  3. SandyReuel

    SandyReuel New Member

    Hear Hear! Absolutely! I go in and check the progress of every doe! A quick simple check with a gloved and lubed hand Can save you needless worry and the doe needless pain. If all is in position and the pelvis is tight we just simply wait and give the doe time to open up and the cervix time to relax a bit more. If the position is incorrect then it is correctable in most cases and all is well. Pulling a kid if needed is much easier on the doe and the kid and will save many that otherwise would be lost... Don't be squeamish or scared. The Uterus is the strongest muscle in the body and can withstand a lot of pressure so you aren't going to rupture anything. Be gentle but firm and check them out. Our does are so used to me checking that if they are in labor and I come into the kidding pen they usually turn around and "assume the position" with their head in the usual corner and wait. They are most grateful for the assistance.

    If you have a doe that is not progressing then do give some calcium...I prefer Cal-Dex2 given sub Q at the rate of 30-60 cc depending on the size of the doe. Give along the lower rib cage and no more than 20cc per injection site. You can get the product from your vet. Other injectable products often cause scar tissue and burning. The Gels are terrible and some will produce very nasty burns in the mouth and throat. If you use the injectable then youknow exactly how much the doe has gotten. The drenches might be OK if you doe doesn't fight you and inhale some or if you are sure that she is actually swallowing it and not slobbering it all over you and the world. The injectables will not affect the rumen either. Hopefully we will be able to get some more CalDex2 next spring as it is on backorder now.
  4. I much prefer injectable calcium too.
    And I heartily agree with clean careful checks. Very important!
  5. mountainaire

    mountainaire New Member

    Hi guys, been gone a while...

    Okay, I really like this post. Just a couple of questions for everybody.

    Gloved hand.... I have never been able to feel anything very well with a gloved hand. So I always use a clean, disinfected hand when I go in. But was taught going in always meant the possibility of an infection, so antibiotics would be a must. Sue Reith, however, had a post saying that you could just flush with the antibiotics and not have to inject.

    Does everyone flush their does? Or not... and if not... any infections or problems with conception in following years?

    Would like to know what you are all experiencing.



    Vicki La Plante
  6. SandyReuel

    SandyReuel New Member

    Hi Vicki,
    Sorry to be so long getting back to you but I haven't had a lot of time to visit the Forum lately... You know how it goes...

    I used to use Latex exam gloves for checking does but since Costco doesn't have them anymore I have switched to the Nitrile ones. They are very thin and it is very easy to feel the kids and their parts through them. It is much easier to quickly don a pair of fresh gloves for me than to take the time and effort to carefully scrub with a brush and hope my hands are clean enough. The gloves are much cleaner than your skin. I have not used the long sleeved gloves like they use for cattle but I noticed that when our vets do use them they put a latex glove on over them so they can feel things better.

    I do not routinely flush my does after kidding. Remember if you are reasonably clean that the contents of the uterus is expelled following kidding so all the junk in there is squeezed out as the uterus shrinks down to normal size. If you have an infection then flushing with Oxytetracyclene mixed with saline and an AI pipette attached to a syringe works very well. I have not had any more does have trouble conceiving than anyone else so it must be working... Do not use uterine boluses unless they have been dissolved in water as they can cause scaring of the uterus. Breeding is not a sterile activity so as the sperm swim into the uterus they bring contaminants along with them from the vaginal tract.... as you do no matter how clean your hands or gloves are when you start.

  7. New Member

    Yesterday LMonty was here...I had a doe in the beginning of labor, but we rarely have kids much before 3 pm, so I figured she would kid after the visit, plus she hadn't quite reached China with her digging! She was giving a few pushes, so while visiting, I simply went into the stall a push 3 or 4 and inserted clean fingers, a foot was right there at the vulva, with teeth and another foot slightly back by the head. Went out and visited while she pushed some, she was not pushing hard. About 5 minutes more and she was pushing harder so I went and pulled the other little hoof slightly forward, so she could get the fullness of the head through the cervic easier..I also held the head from slipping back again so she would deliver the boy eaiser. At no time did I have my hand inside the doe, only up to my fingers. Took the boy to the dairy sink and cleaned him off. Went and checked her and just inserting my fingers she pushed another head and toes right to my fingers...a doeling was delivered. That is a pretty typical delivery here...she had placenta hanging as LMonty left, then delivered another healthy buckling. Milked her out, fed the kids defrosted colostrum that I threw into warm water when we were in the house.

    So yesterday 2 milkers left, 3 kids...that took a huge load off................for 15 mintues, they were replaced by 2 more milkers kidding and 6 kids!!! Will it ever end :) Vicki
  8. Shykid Acres

    Shykid Acres Guest

    Congrats Vicki. Glad she did not go in the middle of the night for you. :)
  9. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

    And it was neat to watch a nice smooth delivery, kinda like a tutorial in action of how Vicki does it. Got some great kids and some education, too! Gotta love it.
  10. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

    Maybe Vicki should do a video! :biggrin