pneumonia doe-thanks for the help.

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by MayLOC, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    Sunday afternoon picked up one of our goats from the original breeder--being bred to her leased buck.

    W/O looking up think she was a last Feb. kid.

    Weighed about 85 pounds last month before we took her there. Looks like about 80 pounds now.

    Goat was found in very bad condition with pneumonia. I do not know how long she was sick or off feed or water. She had only access to grass/alfalfa mix hay and no grain.

    We gave her some IV meds at my mom's near the breeders place and came home the 2.5 hr. drive. Got home and gave her banamine (3/4 cc IM)and nuflor 5ccIM) Do not have iv or sq fluids on hand.

    Her condition sun. night was head down/ears drooped/lying down, moaning and rattling with every breath. Didn't expect her to make it through the night, her eyes and nose were also running badly

    but Mon. morning she was alert, ears pricked, eyes bright, lying down, still moaning with every breath, but did drink a surprising amount.

    Mon total she probably drank a half gal. of water and had more banamine (1/2 cc am and 1/2 pm) and nuflor 3.5 cc pm. By last night the breathing was much improved with only slight noise. She was much more alert.

    Tues. morning she is more alert, but still down. Found her in a mess of pee with a little soft partially formed berry-poops. She has been straining a bit last two days also and has little bloody discharge this morning--I suppose the pregnancy. She didn't willingly drink this morning for me like yesterday. I know she needs fluids badly.

    My FIL can make a vet pickup of whatever I need today. What would you suggest for her? I need to know soon.


    Lactated Ringer Solution --would be one and says SQ or IV. 5 bags???? be enough. dose says 400mL for her 80lbs. 1-3x/day.

    What might be another name for a similar product??? We don't want saline solution, right?

    If I can get her hydrated and over this crud, what kind of food are we looking at====what is she going to need in her stomach?

    What I mean is today is my chance for what I need, I am not going to be able to go back to the vet this week. :down
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds please...

    do you have dextros on hand?? if so you can make a solution with it and saline water or boiled sterile water and give sq. Would have to go look up the amounts for sure.
     

  3. Odeon

    Odeon New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds please...

    I don't like to recommend meds, but for MY ANIMALS, I swear by Nuflor. I have had more luck with that than I have had Naxcel. Nuflor is a Rx, and NOT cheap, but worth every penny in my opinion.

    Ken
     
  4. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds please...

    Thanks Ken, ya, we are using Nuflor already. never w/o it for the cows :D

    Sondra, no, no dextrose here :( Can I concoct it with something else???????? How about tubing her with water???
     
  5. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds please...

    You know I do have pedialyte on hand. could I give this iv, im or sq???

    contains: dextrose,
    potassium citrate
    sodium chloride
    sodium citrate


    per liter, contains: sodium 45 mEq
    potassium 20 mEq
    chloride 35 ''
    citrate 30 ''
    dextrose 25 grams
    calories 100
     
  6. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds please...

    gosh don't know as I would risk it see if your vet has lactate ringers or see if she'll take a bottle or tube what you have but sure wouldn't iv or sq it. myself
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds please...

    would think if the nuflor and the banamine kick in she will start drinking.
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds please...

    sent you a pm with Vicki's ph number
     
  9. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds please... and cocoa update.

    Thanks again Sondra. Just as I was writing Vicki's # this morning my electric went out :sigh. So I had to report to FIL about what I needed then and just told him 5 bags of lactated ringers, as couldn't think of anything else ??????

    Cocoa seems a bit better today. Breathing is still shallow, but no noise now. Seems to be resting fairly peacefully now. Still very very sick. Her nose and eyes are no longer running. Have seen a few moist and sticky formed berries pass twice today. Haven't seen any pee since the puddle I found this morning. Thank goodness we are able to have her in the warm shop on a bed of hay surrounded by alfalfa bales :D and out of the blasted wind.

    Gave her 2 cc bo-se at noon today. 1/2 cc banamine this morning.

    Will plan to give her 1/2 cc banamine tonight and her nuflor--3.5 cc.

    If I don't hear from vicki or kaye or?? before tonight dose, I will try to call to make sure we are on the right track. Fluids should be here tonight :D Hopefully not too late for her. Got the liter of pedialyte down her; half she drank and the other half I syringed into her mouth and she swallows willingly. She has more energy and will to fight me messing with her today which is nice to see. Picked her up to stand twice; stood 1 or 2 minutes; very weak. Inside of her mouth is no longer ice cold like it was when we got her back and even yesterday.
     
  10. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    Just keep giving her as much fluids as you can get down right now. Vicki will be on here shortly to help you.
     
  11. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    ok. after reading I am going to give 400 mL IV as soon as my BIL gets here tonight :D I will also give the 3.5cc nuflor SQ tonight and the banamine 1/2 cc. Unless otherwise suggessted.

    pos. note: when we were moving feed in the shop with the skid loader this evening she tried hard to get up and away from it. She was too weak to get up, but at least she had the well-being to try. sun. night you could have set a wolf in front of her face and she was so sick she wouldn't have noticed or cared. :(

    come on BIL.....
     
  12. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    Sorry I have no idea on giving anything other than lactated ringers either in the setup or the bottle.

    Keep up the banamine and the nuflor, make sure your dose is a good one from Kaye, I use naxcel. The banamine will keep the lungs from scarring. But yes getting her hydrated again will make her feel better.

    B vitmains, no grain until she is ruminanting and pooping normally, and don't think of rebreeding her until she is 100%.

    You did great! You can redo the bo-se next week and then once a month for awhile also.

    Keep her jacketed so she isn't wasting body heat staying warm. Vicki
     
  13. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    Your dose is right on with the Nuflor....give it once a day for 5 days and you can give the banamine at least once a day. I'd go for twice a day for 3 days...to help with the inflammation in the lungs.

    Pedialyte.....no way IV (you'll kill her) or even SQ...it's not designed for that! Orally only. But now that you've got the LRS go with that. Try letting her drink warm water each time before you give her the SQ Fluids. With the pain,fever, kept in check by the Banamine, she may try drinking on her own. You need to get that doe on her feet somehow. The longer she is down (if she is) the more pressure she puts on those lungs. And don't be surprised if she forms pockets of the LRS under her skin...it gravitates to the lowest point but will absorb.
    Keep us updated. Try anything green and hopefully with alfalfa as a prop she will get interested in that. No grain.
    Kaye
     
  14. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    make her a sling and put her in for a while each day
    I read where if they are down you have to turn every 1/2 hr to avoid getting pneumonia so Kaye is right you need to get her up
     
  15. Sheryl

    Sheryl New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    Okay, Vicki, Kaye...I keep reading posts about sick goats, and giving IV or Lac. Ringers....how do you do that? Are you actually sticking a needle in the vein and giving the goat an IV????

    Sheryl
     
  16. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    Lac. ringers got here last night and we IV'd her with about 450 mL. That seemed to perk her up a bit and we got her up and she peed a reg. amount and pood a little moist pellets. When I left her, she was trying to munch on a mouthful of hay and nosing through some a. pellets! Couldn't believe it; not sure when the last time she ate was, as we got her back on her death bed sun. pm and pretty sure she wasn't eating any that day:sigh

    I have been offering her warm water and sometimes molasses water every hour; she sometimes drinks a little and sometimes sips.


    This morning we got her up for her bathroom duties. she seems perky and eyes look really good now.
    ========================

    Ok.
    Kaye-- glad the nuflor dose is good; I will continue that through thurs. then. I have been giving her the banamine 2x/day , so if I can go three days, then today will be the third. (started 1st dose sun. night)

    On giving the L. ringers SQ. how many cc do I give in one spot? (or what is the max. cc for one spot?) Should I just spread it over her rib area then, or better elsewhere? Or would it be best to IV her with it again? I assume just keep this up until she is drinking real well.

    Yes, she is down. I have been getting her up a few times a day, but I need to start now. For a day or two it was working with a half dead goat, so wasn't thinking too much about that, but now with her improvements, I need to get her up more.


    Sondra, thanks for the suggestions and support :D


    Sheryl, you can just get iv sets and give an IV just like to a person. so yes, sticking a needle in.
     
  17. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    My friend went to Convention and heard there that you should never give a goat dextrose subQ. Sounds like the LR and other meds you are using are helping. I hope she continues to recover.
     
  18. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    well, since no response yet about the L.R. dose per site SQ, I am going to IV her another 450 now. check back in later. thanks.
     
  19. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    Well as far as the sq route I have heard just till it makes a fist size ball and then go to the other side. This is what I have done. But gosh if you can give it IV it works much faster in their system I would think.
     
  20. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: pneumonia meds help please...and cocoa update.

    Yep you would be so right however if your goat is dying and you have no other resorces you really don't have anything to lose and I did save one goat this way. However you don't just give dextros plain it has to be mixed with saline solution in the right percentages, also since I don't know how and didn't have the proper stuf to do IV I did use it sq.