Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q? see latest post c necropsy findings

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by susie, Jun 24, 2008.

  1. susie

    susie New Member

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    Which is the best way to give it? also will one of the other antibiotics work better? I have Nuflor and naxcel--
    Susie
     
  2. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    Susie,

    Give penicillin orally one time to absorb the toxins. You really want to give antitoxin here - works great. Also banamine. Banamine will stop the spastic gut pain. Bo-Se and B-complex Sub Q for support.

    If you don't have/can't get antitoxin, then drench with a thick mixture of activated charcoal mixed with some water. It too will absorb the toxins. If you give the penicillin and other goodies, then I would give the charcoal about 1-2 hours later as it absorbs everything you give, bad or good. Don't forget probiotics once she is recovering.

    Camille
     

  3. susie

    susie New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    Hi Camille-
    I've given the anti-toxin already last night and 2 times since. I gave the penicillin orally and sub-q just to cover my bases. I've given banamine vit b and selenium pepto baking soda-- she''s still doing terrbly poor- i think I will lose her too.

    Can you think of anything else i can do?

    susie
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    Have you taken temp?? and how much CD ANTITOXIN are you giving. PenG does nothing for entro given sq. How much does she weigh and how old?
     
  5. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    I give the Penn-G orally, 1 time, to help kill the clostridia(sp) toxins. Sondra's right...if you're not giving enough Antitoxin then your not helping. I will give 10cc to a kid under 20#, 30cc to 20-40#'s and over 40#'s they get 40cc in 4 different places. If the banamine and C/D antitoxin is not bringing the kid around...you're dealing with something else. Either the A&B strains or tetanus or ???? Or you're not giving enough of the antitoxin.

    Naxcel would be my choice in this problem. I even given Naxcel in entro problems because it helps with inflammation of the intestines. 1/2cc.
    Kaye
     
  6. susie

    susie New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    Like I said I gave pen g both orally and sub-q since I wasn't sure.
    I gave 30 cc's anti-toxin- she was 25 pounds, then 25 and another 25. gave naxcel too, this morning .5 cc

    she just died, about 13 hours after this started.
     
  7. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    I'm so sorry Susie. Doesn't sound like it was entero as the antitoxin combined with banamine is so effective.

    Like Kaye said, Clostridium A or B, which you can't do anything about, or else ???

    Camille
     
  8. Terry

    Terry Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    I'm sorry you lost her.
    Terry
     
  9. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    OH am sorry to hear that sounds like it was something else maybe ecoli.
     
  10. susie

    susie New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    doesn't e-coli give scours? her poop and the one I lost last week had totally normal berries.
    This one was stretching when she walked trying to get relief- vet said she looked like a buck with bladder stones-- doelings don't get that commonly do they? Just grabbin at straws here-- pretty unlikely that two would have 'em.
    She just had a heckuva gut ache that came on so quick.
    I only have one doeling left -- I don't think I'm up for much more of this. I think if she comes down with symptoms I'll just have my husband put her down.
    I am going to ask the vet about a necropsy when he returns my call.
    Susie


    susie
     
  11. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    Susie,

    You can also open up this little doe yourself - very educational, really. We lost a doe this Spring - doing much of what your doe did. Treated her for entero - she died in my arms. My DS opened her up for me, and we found that at one point her intestines constricted down to pencil-lead size (from pinky finger size). Of course, when she was just nursing (Boer) she was fine, but once she started eating hay and such, the matter couldn't get through the hole. Essentially she died from a blockage. And nothing, short of surgery, could have saved this doe. Just one of those things.

    Not to say this is what happened to your doe, but opening them up sure can save you a lot of questions and potential over-reactions.

    Camille
    P.S. Are these your 3 Boer bottle babies? Did they receive their colostrum? Grabbing at straws here too.
     
  12. Belle

    Belle New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    Sorry you lost her, I hope the necropsy will at least give you some answers.
     
  13. susie

    susie New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    Camille-
    I was just thinking that same thing-- I'm sure my Vet doesn't want to deal with a necropsy ( he's mostly a cow vet) I'm going to ask my husband to help - he has butchering skills so can do a neater job than I..
    I would like to have a look tho, and see if I can determine anything.
    You know I was wondering about that-- i'm going to ask the lady i bought them from. Another thought I had was prhaps when we moved them from inside the barn to a little pen there was something on the ground- the big goats had been there before. Makes sense that Margie, who would eat mostly grass would've been exposed first, then Poppy, who was also a good grazer next. So that leaves Tulla who has been the least interested in grass. I think I'll move her pen to a totally "clean " area where no goats have gone before--she is so lonely :( Yes these are my Boers. were my Boers :(

    Big Bob is doing fine tho Camille :)
    He's on brush control duty in the back pasture.
    Susie
     
  14. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    I'm sorry you lost your doeling. Is there any way you can get a little goat friend for Tulla? Kathie
     
  15. susie

    susie New Member

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    Re: Pen g for entero--orally or sub-q?

    Just came in from looking at Poppy.
    well first thing was that she had free blood and fluid in her abd cavity, when we cut through the abd wall first cut it came out with intestines following. Her intestines were very full of blood and the color was dark red almost blue. Other areas of her intestinal tract were ok she had normal stool ready to be pooped. some before that was not pelleted and a little firm.
    She had a milk curd in one of her stomachs and grass in another, partially digested. her kidneys looked fine, her liver looked ok.
    sodoes this sound like entero? terrible-- now all three doelings had supposedly received their first cdt shot-- i will confirm that again.

    Any ideas?
    thank you
    susie
     
  16. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    When buying new animals I always doubt the prevous owners word and start a vaccination schedule just like I would do to ones born here. It makes me feel better .

    Sorry you lost her.


    Patty
     
  17. susie

    susie New Member

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    That's a smart plan Patty. thank you,
    Susie
     
  18. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    ALSO NOTE: just because a goat has had all their shots doesn't mean they won't get entro from any sudden chg in food or weather etc etc etc. It just helps in most cases.
    and yes unless I get goats from Vicki or someone I know they all get series of shots again when they come here.
     
  19. susie

    susie New Member

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    Thanks everyone-- I appreciate all the help.
    i hope my last one makes it. I gave her some anti-toxin as preventative.


    Susie
     
  20. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Hoping Kaye chimes in here with thoughts behind the bloody fluid...