Open Sinus Cavity

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by stoneyheightsfarm, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    I asked a question in a previous thread, but it may be lost in the shuffle so thought I'd start a new topic. I just brought home 2 of my goats from the vet who needed their horns re-done. Thankfully, out of 4 horns, I only have one hole into the sinus cavity to deal with, but still, it's nothing I anticipated and am a bit nervous here. (It's on the buck, not the doe.)

    Sondra recommended I superglue some gauze down and then spray with furall. Questions: How long do I leave the gauze there? Will I need to change it out frequently or only when it's no longer needed? In removing the gauze, is this something that will come off on its own, or will I need to remove it? And do I just rip it off or is there a good technique for doing this?

    Vet said not to put anything on it, but to just wipe it with a warm damp cloth if it gets dirty. Uuuuuhhhh... it's a dime sized hole into the sinus cavity! I'm SO not ready for this! How long can I expect it to take for some tissue growth to cover this hole? Any of y'all with experience that would like to chime in and encourage me any here would be most appreciated!
     
  2. Truly

    Truly New Member

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    OK, first off, I have no experience in this.

    But I think your idea of superglue and gauze sounds excellent. I hope someone with experience chimes in soon.
     

  3. Haglerfarm

    Haglerfarm New Member

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    Been there done this. Never do again.
    I had a buck I bought that had a big scur, actually more of a big unicorn horn. I waited until fly season was over then had it removed. Mine had a big hole as he was a yearling buck.
    Anyhow, don't cover it too much where it cannot get air or it will take forever to heal. Ask me why I know.
    Did she cauterize the horn base after removing the horn? I hope so.
    I just clipped the hair real short around the horn base and used the white waterproof medical tape and taped around the edges of a gauze square and put it over the area to keep the big stuff from getting into it. Mainly hay as goats like to still their heads in it. And letting air in. After doing this it healed over rather quickly. I don't remember exactly how long now as this was about 15 years ago. I changed it every day and sprayed with Furall around the edges and redressed it. It was not long until it healed over.
    Les
     
  4. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats Active Member

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    Well I "vet-wrapped " one of mine who had her horns banded and was left with a dime-sized hole. But I took it off too soon and it got infected.Even with that it was only a few weeks til the hole was filled in. To get it all well, I put pen right on it, covered it back up with gauze and vet wrap. Now she looks great.
     
  5. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

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    I would use rubber cement as the superglue can get brittle over time and may come off too soon.
     
  6. Bella Star

    Bella Star New Member

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    I would do just what the vet told me as it needs to heal from the inside out,the gauze could get wet and being glued.. how do you get it out without messing up the forming new skin ? Bacteria loves heat and this needs lots of air .
     
  7. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats Active Member

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    The problem with leaving this particular wound uncovered is that debris will fall into the hole and then it could get infected.
     
  8. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Do what the vet said. If it gets infected then go back to the vet and tell him/her.

    A dime sized hole...pffttt, that's nothing! I've seen silver dollar sized that grew back in and looked great.
    If the vet was concerned with infection something would have been Rx'ed to give.
    Kaye
     
  9. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Listen to Kaye what do I know ? never had a hole in any goats head here :biggrin
     
  10. MRFBarbara

    MRFBarbara Guest

    I had this once is a buck that got redone... He had a quarter size hole in his head.. what I did was shave all the hair off around it.. flush the hole with saline water once a day, filled in a syringe and cover very very loosely with a gauze taped, but tented up so air could get in there and help it heal, but keep out loose hay, dirt etc.. to tent gauze loosely, roll a couple of peices of gauze and glue to his head on each side of the hole..then tape clean gauze over those rolled pieces.. and down on the other size.. Flush every day with saline, you could see the hole close up some every day and get smaller.. yep he hated it flushed the fluid would come out his nose, but it never got infected and healed in less than two weeks and closed right up.
    Barbara
     
  11. Tricia

    Tricia New Member

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    I agree with Kaye and Barbara. A dime-sized opening is not so bad, I've dealt with much larger

    Superglue and gauze sound horrendous for the buck and won't promote healing. You may be hiding "the problem" but not helping. The healing process is actually pretty interesting and this will be a good nursing experience for you that will do you well in terms of wound management.

    I've kept mine bandaged for the first 4 days post-surgery and given Banamine the first three days for pain management. A course of Naxcel the first week. Then I change the bandage at least every other day or more frequently if it has slipped until I see the wound site beginning to fill with granular tissue. If the wound needs cleaning (pus or debris if the bandage slipped), I irrigate with normal saline. I rebandage by placed a piece of gauze over the wound site -- I put a little triple antibiotic salve on the gauze so that it stays in place while I start to wrap some elastikon over the poll to hold the gauze in place, under the chin, up around one ear, under the chin, up around the other ear ending down the nose. To really get the healing well on the way you need to get air on the site to have it scab up well -- I stop bandaging when the sinus hole is completely filled in with granular tissue.

    Other than the irrigation, my boys have actually enjoyed the attention of being bandaged and praised. They get to come up to the "people side" of the main barn where I'm set up to do basic nursing, and the does all watch from their side.
     
  12. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Thanks, y'all! I had responded to some of this yesterday, but then my 2 y/o came and deleted everything right before we had to head to the Dr. for my 5 y/o (ear infection). Chicks came a day earlier than expected (this morning) What a week!

    Anyhow, DH & I put loose gauze on yesterday w/waterproof tape, but this morning it is off. If we're to keep anything on it, we clearly have to do more than we're doing. Vet said just to watch it and if it starts to look bad to let her know and we'd do penicillin. I got the older chickens out of that barn to help cut down on dust/debris around him and think I may give the does more fresh alfalfa than they can eat and then give the bucks what they've picked over for a while, so there isn't as much dust or leaf shatter to worry with.

    I'm encouraged and over the initial shock now. Tripoli is acting like not much happened. He doesn't appear to be in pain and runs about and flirts through the fence with the girls as normal. He just doesn't let Jarlath (other buck) get rowdy with him now. :)

    If I need saline, will just the stuff I can get at Walmart for contacts (pure saline, not cleaner) work? It's a comfort to know that I can expect the hole to be closed within a couple weeks! Will bone grow back there eventually, or will there always be a soft spot?

    Another question... A friend would like to breed her does to this buck. How long do you think it would take before he's up to the task?
     
  13. Tricia

    Tricia New Member

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    Billie -- Glad it's going well. The worst of the pain is in the first three days -- that's why I've usually waited until Day 4 to rebandage (if they were bandaged post-surgery). The sinus cavity usually fills with granular tissue in about two weeks. Good scabbing should be there between weeks 3 and 4. Bone usually grows back over. Mine seem fully healed by six weeks out, butting with abandon.

    There's a product called "Wound Wash" which is just normal saline. 3M makes a more sophisticated variant that has some zinc and other stuff in it.

    Here's what a bandage that stays on looks like:

    [​IMG].

    This one has a piece of gauze over the sinus hole to help with drainage. I'd used some roll gauze wrapped once over his polll and under his chin to hold the gauze in place while I got the vetwrap on (over the poll, under the chin, figure-8 around the ears). That piece of Elastikon stretching from between his ears and down his nose it what kept the whole assembly in place. With an older buck, I haven't been able to keep vetwrap in place, and I've needed to use Elastikon instead. Just cut through it along the cheek when it needs to be removed. I try to leave the bandage off as soon as possible particularly after the wound site has stopped draining but really like to have granulation well under way before I do -- sometimes I've left it on longer to deal with dust during a construction project or a hot buggy period. Sometimes I've bandaged for being out and about during the day and then left it off at night.

    I'd think your buck would be up for breeding by a week out.
     
  14. Haglerfarm

    Haglerfarm New Member

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    I never had to use anything for pain as he seemed just fine. I also never used anything to clean it out. I did change the gauze daily and gave it a good look over. I did spray Furall on the edges at first, then put on the gauze. If a little got in the hole it didn't hurt anything. He never even got a runny nose, which I expected. I didn't use anything that would keep the wound moist.
    At first I kept it bandaged too well. It wouldn't heal over. The vet told me it needed air to heal. After doing so it healed right up. And he had a big hole.
    Les
     
  15. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Thanks, Tricia! That helps immensely! I just talked to my vet and she said if I feel the need to bandage to do exactly what you said, and I REALLY appreciate the photo! Also said to irrigate with saline if I see anything in there, but that I shouldn't need to do anything at all unless I see it starting to look infected or something gets in there.

    So, looks like next month, my other dog will get spayed and my other buck will get his scurs done (what was a bunch of slivers is now a half moon around the original horn base...) and I will be learning lots and getting a little tougher in the process!

    And a week? Great news! We'll be in business! :)

    Oh... Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

    Thanks, Les! That's encouraging, too, that I don't have to worry over little speks of dust. :) SOOOO glad to have y'all's input! Normally I'd be a nervous wreck and you've really set me at ease!
     
  16. Tricia

    Tricia New Member

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    Billie -- One of the things that was really good for me about dehorning was learning more about wound management and healing with the "luxury" of dealing with a surgical wound site rather than an accidental injury site.
     
  17. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    That's a really great way to look at it! :)
     
  18. Haglerfarm

    Haglerfarm New Member

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    bucks are always much harder to do a good job of disbudding on. I occasionally get those on the edges. I let them go as they break them off from time to time. Or I just take my hoof trimmers and clip them off. Most of mine are loose anyhow.
    Les
     
  19. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Just in the future, a single layer of gauze, used to sift out large debrief, let the wound breath with some protection, the super glue actually works really well on keeping it attached to the hair. Using a single layer of gauze and super glue can also work to keep a teat together that has been snagged, once healed its much easier to simply remove it than stitches that really don't work, plus with a hole in the bottom you can also still use a cannula to ease milk out. One layer of gauze will also keep flies out of eyes that big cattle or sheep patches won't work for.

    I first saw this on a pup who had it's ears cropped during fly season, I have used this same premise many times on things I want covered from flies or dirt but want to let air dry. Vicki
     
  20. Tricia

    Tricia New Member

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    Vicki -- When you change the gauze do you just snip the glued hair that's holding the gauze on? I like this idea as a light protection. Any problems with rubbing at it or is it just so simple and light that they leave it be?