Off the wall idea...

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by stoneyheightsfarm, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    As I was sloshing ice out of water buckets this morning, I had a thought... Since nutridrench is primarily propylene glycol, and propylene glycol is antifreeze, would putting a little nutridrench in the water help keep it from freezing? Or would you have to use too much for it to be effective?
     
  2. Sybil

    Sybil New Member

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    I believe antifreeze is ethylene glycol?
     

  3. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Nope don't think nutradrench will help with freezing water.
     
  4. paulaswrld

    paulaswrld New Member

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    Yes, Regular (car type) anti freeze is ethylene glycol. Propylene is the FDA approved food use glycol and would not help keep the water from freezing.

    P
     
  5. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    Or... you could try it out and let us all know! ;)
     
  6. Madfarmer

    Madfarmer New Member

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    Although the newer stuff is less toxic, old-style (cheap) antifreeze is deadly poison.

    Tom
     
  7. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Propylene glycol is the less toxic antifreeze... just don't know how much it would take to be effective (assuming it would vary with varying temperatures) and what is a safe level to give otherwise healthy animals. (May be FDA approved, but so are a lot of things that you wouldn't want to use in large quantities... My mom won't eat Betty Crocker cake mixes b/c of the propylene glycol!) Guess I have some more researching to do...
     
  8. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Vodka doesn't freeze! :rofl
     
  9. Necie@Lunamojo

    [email protected] Active Member

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    Would this be the same as glycerine. On another forum a gal had posted (from 2004), that she added 1 tsp of glycerine per gallon of water to keep her rabbits water from freezing. Haven't tried it as I haven't gotten any factual answers as to if this would be safe.
     
  10. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I think you would have to use a fair amount of propylene glycol to the water to keep it from freezing. That much would probably make the goats not want to drink it. If you've ever had to give it to a sick goat, you will probably also remember what a PITA it is to get a goat to swallow 30-40 cc of it. Nutradrench attempts to make pg more palatable by adding molasses, which I also wouldn't want to be adding to the goats' water on a regular basis. I've neber heard of adding glycerine to rabbit water. I think if that worked and was safe, my friend would be using it in her rabbit waterers. It's cheaper to by a stock heater to use in the goats water tub. Kathie
     
  11. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Camille, I'd surely have some happy goats! :)

    Kathie, that's what I was afraid of. Makes sense, but I was wishfully thinking while tending to all those frozen buckets! :) Surely its freezing point isn't so low that just a little would lower the water's freezing point enough to work. :/ ~and like you said, I wouldn't want to add that much.
     
  12. Good Goats

    Good Goats New Member

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    Propylene Glycol is sold for use in dairy cows, and I have used it before in goats. But there is also Propylene Glycol anti-freeze for vehicles, which is the same thing. Don't think it would work though for freezing water troughs.

    What about ACV? I've heard that it has a low freezing point?
     
  13. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho Member

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    Get yourself some drop in heaters and/or plug in buckets ;-) I've been breaking ice every morning, but it's about that time for me.

    Tracy
     
  14. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Tracy, this will mean running an extension cord out to the barn at this point. We hope to eventually get water and electricity to it, but just getting it built this year was the biggie. Suddenly, some of my priorities are changing... :)

    Suriyah, what is ACV?
     
  15. shawhee

    shawhee Member

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    ACV = Apple Cider Vinegar
     
  16. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Ah, thanks! :) Looked up vinegar's freezing point, and at 28 degrees farenheit, it wouldn't help much...

    a 20 % propylene glycol (by mass) with water solution would have a freezing point of 18 degrees farenheit, and that would be enough to avoid icy buckets most nights here. You'd have to up it to 30% by mass to get the freezing point down to 7 degrees farenheit. But... I'm thinking that even 20% propylene glycol and 80% water is more PG than I'd want to give them thru the winter! Thru researching it, it does look like it has a very low toxicity, but not sure I'd want to play with that, and we'd be looking at quite a bit of money over the months... However, if I had to be gone in an emergency for a day or so with no one to check on the goats (I can't see this happening, just thinking) this might be a McGyverish way to insure they keep liquid fluids available! :)
     
  17. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    As someone who used propolyn glycol alot during the olden days of ketosis, it does a number on the throat and rumen of the goat. The only way we could keep a doe alive and eating longer than just a week or so was to tube it, because it was so caustic. I would want to find another solution to this problem rather than using something like this. Or first put the same ratio you are going to use in a glass and drink it yourself.

    I know we don't 'freeze' here like you all do, but what about just putting a basketball or something into the water to leave and open space each day, know it worked in our koi pond. Vicki
     
  18. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho Member

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    ROTFL! My farm RUNS on extension cords all winter! Sometimes as many as 5-6 at a time!

    Tracy
     
  19. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    LOL! We have a system of extension cords that are artfully twined at the tops of our stock panels and then drape across some tall pine trees to provide water heaters/de-icers for the goats! Probably a small fortune in extension cords, but is sure saves time and frustration when dealing with frozen water. Plus, hauling water on snowy/icy paths really, um, stinks.

    Our dairy girls like the donut that heats the trough, the Boers only like the de-icers that keep the water liquid.
     
  20. chewie

    chewie New Member

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    don't forget to check the water's temp when using a heater--i was gone over the weekend, hubby did chores. i called home, how's it going? he says 'do you realize how hot that water is?' nope, i surely did not--its hot as soup! i have one of those 'bucket heaters', looks like a tin can iwth holes in it, and it says 'ideal for 5 gallon buckets.' then in smaller print, its says 'heats the water rather than de-icing.' now, i really have NO idea why anyone would want water hot enough to make tea, in a 5 gallon bucket, but those poor dears couldn't even touch it!