'Nother Couple o' Fecal Questions

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by stoneyheightsfarm, Sep 18, 2008.

  1. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Well, this learning curve just seems to get longer and longer! I did fecals today by myself for the first time. I have a couple questions, but in my usual long-winded nature, will give a little background...

    2 days ago, I took fecals on my boys to the vet. Their numbers (3 weeks after the last clean fecal) were back up a bit. They've been on treatment for 2 days now. I fecaled the one who had the most as my control.

    I fecaled the girls. Their numbers looked minimal. The boy I fecaled had slightly more than the girls, but nothing like what I saw in the vet's office. I'm wondering how much I would see his numbers go down after 2 days of treatment (Corid)?? If I should expect a significant decrease, then we're probably good. If that decrease isn't to be expected yet, then something is probably wrong with my technique.

    I'm going to link photos of what I did see. The first one, I would like your opinion--is this something, or debris? Strongyle? The next one I am thinking is cocci. Again, your input here would be very helpful. All photos taken are at 400x, but my camera stinks!

    http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp324/stoneyheightsfarm/IMAG0002.jpg

    http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp324/stoneyheightsfarm/IMAG0004.jpg

    Many thanks!
     
  2. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    The pics....I think the top pic is HC worm....the bottom pic is cocci.

    2 days after treatment with corid....numbers ? I can only tell you what I see...others have seen different I'm sure.
    I haven't seen much change with corid in 2 days...maybe after 5 or 6 days, and definitely after 10.

    In full blown cases of cocci, my numbers were always high almost every check.......but in cases where the cocci numbers were just too high for me, but the goat had no symptoms...the cocci numbers would bounce up and down from one check to another.
    Lots of this stuff sheds off in cycles, and sometimes it's hard to really know where a goat stands unless you have access to a micro and are able to keep close checks/fecals on them. It's not beneath me to run 2 to 3 fecals a day on any goat that I am worming or treating for cocci....and this may go on for several days, as I try to figure out whether my meds are doing any good at all.

    I encourage you to stay with it until you figure out what works best at your place....some of this management knowledge will only come from your own experience.

    Whim
     

  3. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    I borrowed the microscope (mom teaches chemistry and the biology teacher loaned it to her) so the microscope had to go back today. I'd be back up to the school running them myself, but our whole family has a nasty stomach bug. :( But maybe I need to run them up to the vet, b/c I should probably have seen more than what I did on my boy's sample. Symptoms are low to nonexistant at this point, so I fear what you said about each fecal looking different. Goats w/the best looking berries seemed to have the most cocci... ugh.
     
  4. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Billie....I don't want to down play the importance of keeping worms/cocci in check, but I've found that vets that don't know much about running fecals on goats (and what is deemed normal) tend to over react at the first thing they find.
    Now...you said boys, so I'm assuming these are very young goats we're talking about.......and here, I would be paying more attention to the fecals on these guys, than say a goat that is 2 to 10 years old.
    Symptomatic goats get treated very aggressively....especially young goats. Ones who's numbers may bounce a bit, but have no symptoms, eat well, feel good, look good, and has good body weight....well, I just keep a closer eye on them for a while. As these goats mature, these numbers tend to level off a bit better unless they come into heavy stress (like birthing) of some type.

    Trying to keep these goats from getting scar damage caused internally from cocci/worms is of much importance, and needs to be dealt with....but trying to keep them completely free of these "bugs" is about impossible.

    Not to sure I'm helping you, but I'm sincerely trying.........hope some others can chime in and give you some better advice .


    Whim
     
  5. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    All my goats are babies. 2 does born Feb 25th, 1 buck born May 1ish, and 1 born May19th. Another doeling born June 23rd. So, I'm trying to keep their numbers down and let them grow an immunity w/o getting overwhelmed or damaged.

    My vet is a goat specialist (she's the goat vet in the office, there are several doctors, all w/different specialties)--admittedly she has far more experience w/boers, b/c that's what is in our area, but I feel confident in that she knows how to do a fecal. She doesn't do a true # per gram count (doesn't weigh out a gram, doesn't use a counting slide) but she does take a rough count of the parasites on the slide, looks at the dispersion, and puts them on a 1 to 4 scale that they have found to be useful. I've been able to look at the slides each time she does a fecal. What I saw Tuesday in her office and what I saw yesterday on my fecal at home were vastly different. Since this is the first one I've done entirely by myself and she's done thousands, I'm pretty sure I'm the one who didn't do a good job. :)

    Sooo.... with everyone around here not able to get too many steps from the bathroom, I'll probably wait until Monday, run the girls' fecals up, and take my cat while I'm at it. :) He's not looking so well right now, either! (Could be he's just stressed out by the new GPs!) We'll keep treating the boys, and refecal them following treatment. If it weren't $10 a fecal and gas money for the half hour drive up, I'd be there all the time! I need to learn to do a better job of these myself, and I can tell that having a really nice microscope will make a difference!

    I do appreciate your help, Whim!
     
  6. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Well people come before goats...so hoping you folks get to feeling better. My 12 YO is at home today with the same thing.....so I know what you're dealing with.

    Practice with that micro every chance you get. I practice a lot when everthing is "normal"...that way I catch it quickly when something is getting abnormal.

    Sounds like you have a vet with reasonable goat knowledge, so I would follow her lead until you get your feet on the ground good. Things will improve for you in time as you learn how to deal with your particular goats in your particular area.

    Just as a side note....Cocci has been the biggest problem here in Al. this summer (in kids). Seems like there was a wave of it around in May, and then another round of it hit in early Aug.....not hearing much jabber about it in a few days now.

    Hope yaw get to fellin better,

    Whim