Not allowing does to come into milk.

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by old dominion, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. old dominion

    old dominion New Member

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    This is really two questions. What does this group know about drying off older does right after kidding and allowing first fresheners to kid but not allowing them to come into milk?

    I have heard about older does never being milked so the time after kidding is not so physically draining and about people who let a yearling doe kid, look at her udder, and dry her off immediately. They keep what they like and sell a doe with an udder that isn't good enough then they allow the keepers to grow for another year.

    Any one know anything about these types of situations?

    Jolene
     
  2. Cotton Eyed Does

    Cotton Eyed Does New Member

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    Well I have had a doe to kid and lost the kid and I didn't milk her and she dried up. I just left her alone and she dried up.

    But a FF if they are a year old I would just milk them. As long as they get plenty feed they should be able to milk and grow. I've grown out several FF's and it didn't affect their size.
     

  3. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    Problem I see is sometimes I have a huge change shortly into milking or as a 2 year old.

    Drying off olde does who may have problems keeping weight or are really up there in age say 9 would make some sense. You still get the bloodline but do not have to worry about the does condition.

    Patty
     
  4. Ashley

    Ashley New Member

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    I don't know why anyone would want to do that as a practice, they are *milk* goats.
     
  5. UnRuli Acres

    UnRuli Acres New Member

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    If you're spending the money to feed them why wouldn't you want them producing for you? If you're feeding them a good, balanced diet then there is no reason they can't milk AND grow.

    Besides, I've seen a farm that did just that (dried up first fresheners after viewing their udder and waited until they were older to milk) and the results were not good. The udder you see right after kidding isn't always the udder you have after milking for 30-90 days. Something that looks spectacular right after freshening can be a flop after 60-90 days, and (this happened with one of my does) you might even have a god-awful ugly, cone-shaped udder right after freshening that 30 days later turns in to something LOVELY! Boy would you be kicking yourself for selling off that one (this particular doe produced some of the best doelings in my herd with LOVELY udders!). If you dried the doe up right after freshening you then have an entire extra year of feed in to the animal before you freshen and milk her only to find that the beautiful udder she had right at freshening wasn't the udder the doe actually has or that you sold off the doe that you should have kept.

    You also arent' going to know for a year how well the doe produces if you dry her up right away after her first freshening......she may be a cull due to poor performance, but again you won't know that until after you've fed her for an entire extra year.

    The major issues I saw in this particular herd were that the does come in to a lot of milk their second freshening, but because they didn't have their udder capacity stretched out some by milking the previous year their udder attachments are strained and sometimes even (on the really heavy milkers) blown. Then, there were others that wouldn't milk beyond a few months as they were dried up so soon after their first kidding.

    Why would you want to bother freshening them the first time if you're not going to milk them?
     
  6. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    I think it was probally a show herd she was talking about . They do not need the milk . They are after show wins not milking awards.

    I will agree there are lots of chances being taken drying them off.

    Patty
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Would never do it myself now I have a few this year that are going to raise their own babies just for meat so they won't be coming into the milk room on a regular basis until after weaning.
     
  8. UnRuli Acres

    UnRuli Acres New Member

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    Interesting.......I know it's said a lot that show people are only interested in showing and not milking ability, but the two are NOT exclusive. I know of more people with interest in milking ability AND show ability than just one or the other. I know here......if they couldn't milk AND show they didn't stay.
     
  9. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Jolene,

    Both scenarios you ask about are entirely possible.

    If you don't want to milk an old doe but want her to freshen, don't milk her! I recommend not milking her at all after she freshens, meaning no colostrum. Do not touch her udder. Of course you will need to keep an eye on her udder to make sure she doesn't have problems but most often they quickly absorb their milk. If you see she is getting really full there are things you can do to ease her discomfort without milking her out.

    We have also dried off first freshening yearlings to allow them more time to grow and mature. It has ALWAYS been to their benefit in the end. It does not affect their overall milk production and the does that we dried up as immature first fresheners have always gone on to milk as much as their herdmates the following year. IMO it is much more important to give them time off to mature than ask too much of them as yearlings.

    I hope this helps.

    Sara
     
  10. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    Sara , thanks for the input from someone who has done it .

    I too would not want a pretty doe who could not milk . But just like in dogs ..my Goldens could show , do obedience and hunt . Lots of dogs that were pretty were dumb as a bag of rocks and hunting lines are known for being butt ugly.


    Patty
     
  11. I bought 3 young does last year. All were bred younger/lighter then what I would have choosen. I catch the kids at birth, never TOUCHED the udders. Two needed banamine for the pain/swelling for a couple days and didn't up the grain at all. All 3 does did great and really began to GROW... they have caught up and in most cases well passed, my older ff's that I did milk... everyone is due to kid about the same time this year (the dried up ff's & the milked ff's) I'll tell you if I see any difference and such...
    susie, mo ozarks
     
  12. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Yeah the milk and show thing kind of irks me also. Without a full udder of milk you can't show. It's why come fall there are soo few milkers out there, unless they were freshened for fall shows. I have never dried up a yearling, I can't have unproductive does here. And boy can that udder change in 2 weeks let alone 8 to 12 weeks. I wouldn't want to keep a doe around for that long with a suprise udder waiting while she eats and grows.

    I have not milked older does and it's how we ended up dealing with CAE with the does to valuable for us to put down. Vicki
     
  13. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Our does milk well so that isn't a concern for me. It's something we've culled for over the years. I don't want a doe that takes 20 hours to fill her udder just to be able to show her. They can't just be pretty here... they have to milk too! :D

    Many of you mention the huge changes that first fresheners go through udder wise. I just don't see those types of drastic changes in my herd. I will see slight changes as the doe comes in more milk but nothing that I couldn't see at 2 weeks fresh. Perhaps that is why I'm not concerned if I need to dry up a yearling to give her more time to mature. I don't do it very often but when I have it has worked out very well. Interesting.

    Sara
     
  14. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    I agree with that statement!! And there is a score on the card for udder capacity! There's very few "show" herds that aren't interested in milk....who knows where that statement came from(internet probably??)...but it wasn't a dairy goat person!

    It's FINALLY getting to the point that judges are placing those heavy producers (with good udder attachment) over those cute little handful udders. Maybe because those young judges have finally learned how to tell udder attachment, with capacity, from cute handful udders???
    JMO
    Kaye
     
  15. There's very few "show" herds that aren't interested in milk....who knows where that statement came from(internet probably??)...but it wasn't a dairy goat person!

    I actually disagree with this. We show all over and I constantly hear breeders complaining because a doe "milks too much",talking about drying lots of does up immediately after freshening, one local breeder switched all does to 1x aday milking because 10-14 lbs production "is way too stressful" for a show doe, etc. I know lots of folks who show a lot that are dumping all their milk in the back or down the drain, they only milk the show string, drying the rest up after kidding, dry everyone up the second after they get home from the last show and they can never tell you how much a doe milks because they don't know or care. :sigh
    And I do realizethat people's schedules etc may prevent them from milking every doe, they want to dry off aged brood does, etc, everyone is differnet. But it is the attitude towards high propduction that I am talking about.
    Frustrating because I firmly believe milk is part of show but I think a lot of show herds could care less.
    And I know of several judges that will NOT put up a capacious doe, don't show under 'em anymore ;)
    Becky
    edited to add: I understand where Kaye is coming from because I hate when folks go, oh, you just have fancy show goats, not milk goats, because I DO care baout milk, and we use very drop here productively. Sigh.
     
  16. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    My girls have to be able to "pull their weight" around here because you sure don't feed them by going to shows! The fact they are competitive in the showring is just a plus. Expenses are so high now that it really doesn't pay to even show...but, I still like to compete, see how they stack up against others breedings and get to see old friends.

    So, I don't "whip" out the DHIR papers anymore when someone says,"Oh, they're JUST show goats.

    I sure LOST MY LAST NERVE with one "gentleman?" this fall wanting to buy goats, kinda' pushy type. He came here wanting a milk goat, didn't want those "fancy show goats". Told him prices started at $250 and went up...Well, he said he didn't want show goats, AGAIN! I told him that the "milk goats" started at $400, since my heaviest milk goats were my Show does! :mad Yep, I'd totally lost my last bit of patience, :blush since the doe he wanted was a SGCH that milked over 3,000#. Oh, BTW...he offered me $100 for her.??? :tapfoot

    Anyway, he did leave with a $300 doe that averaged 14#'s , ROFLOL...and had placed no lower than 2nd in her classes! I just didn't have the heart to tell him,"SHE'S A SHOW DOE TOO!" ;)
    I'll just never get it, I guess.
    Kaye
     
  17. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well know I am of a minority here because I really haven't shown much to speak of at all YET. If my girls didn't milk good and most be of show quality, I wouldn't have goats at all. These girls which most of them are Mini's have to pull their weight in milk because that is what feeds them and makes my soap and cheese which are by products. If they didn't pay for themselves I would not be able to have goats at all. So really no drying up here for any reason.
     
  18. Beverrlly

    Beverrlly New Member

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    I guess people just think that only "show goats" are expensive and that a good milking "Nannie goat" (had to change the spelling!!) cost only $100 if she isn't a show goat. Jeez...people just don't get it yet do they?
     
  19. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    According to some longtime goat raisers, they won't even milk an older doe (including no colostrum), but kid her out if her bloodlines are valuable to their herd, because the mililking just takes so much out of her (obviously they were not desperate for the milk!).
    One very smart lady told me that if you are going to milk that older doe (9, 10, 11 years old) then you feed her her own colostrum. Apparently this is quite the elixir!

    Regarding show vs. milk, there are some breeders who are determined to have both, but many times a show herd ends up sacrificing production/capacity for general appearance.
    When we were in the market for a very nice buck, we contacted a herd that has since sold off their 3 National herds. They werre offering us a buck out of a 3 year old 2nd freshener that was 6 weeks fresh and giving 10 pounds a day. She was pretty, but we passed on her....we want does that milk more than that, and with a nice steady long lactation.
    Of course, when some folks are working with a lot of animals, a reduction in production isn't noticed as much, because they have sooo much milk from so many animals.
    Thus over time, the milk production goes down.

    As for the people asking for non-show goats, I think that they just equate that with "cheaper"! :rofl
     
  20. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    It is even for people