Nigerian breeders question

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by whimmididdle, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    I'm more or less asking this for a couple of folks who are new with ND's and frequent our forum from time to time. The question comes from more of a health/hampered growth concern situation, and not just a spring show(s) standpoint.
    I have given what my rule of thumb with mine are, but would like to hear from across the forum what your rule of thumb is with ND's.........I assume that mini's would also fall into a similar situation too.


    OK......How young and at what weight is the earliest that you would breed an ND doe ?


    Thanks so much for your thoughts....success.....or problems that you may have had with yours.


    Whim

    (BTW) Just in case you are wondering....my rule of thumb is 30 lbs, and 7 months old.
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I go by what the old breeders from here have always told me and is what I do with Mini's also never breed before 1 yr old so they are usually 18 mo old before I breed them.
     

  3. MRFBarbara

    MRFBarbara Guest

    I also wait until they are usually older than one year to breed, and because of spring births, they are 18 months before they are bred.. I did try it one year on 7 month old kids and just had too many problems with them.. They just don't seem to mature enough to breed at 7 months, and I have good growth in my kids, mykids are usually bigger than anyone else's around here, but i leave them on milk a long long time.
    Barbara
     
  4. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Hmmm.......This is interesting, because I got my "rule of thumb" from one of the oldest ND breeders in the country......and so far, I've had less problems kidding these 1 y.o. , than I've had out of my senior doe's.
    This is also part of an ongoing discusion that I've had in the past about showing dry yearlings, and earning dry legs.....and loosing a years worth of freshenings....and showing 2 yo FF.......So, it does include some showing in the equation I guess.

    I'm hoping that Pam ,Kennon, and other's will post here too.....would like to hear their "rule of thumb".


    Thanks, Whim
     
  5. Agape Oaks

    Agape Oaks Guest

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    It depends on the goat for me. I rarely breed one at under a year......I have bred a few younger does who were more mature, but as a general rule I aim for them to freshen at 18 months to 2 years old. This spring I had one who freshened at 18 months & she's done very well, but most of mine were 2 yr old 1st fresheners. For me it wasn't to show them as dry yearlings as all of my 2 year olds had earned their dry legs at under a year old. I do currently have 2 does who will hopefully freshen in Oct as 18 month old does, both are good sized does.
     
  6. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

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    Whim,
    I know with the Nigi's I have I have learned the hard way when to breed mine. I had some get into the buck pen last year and had more problems with them being bred so young. 1 c-section as she had triplets and the babies from some just didnt seem to do as well. I will now wait till they are alot older as they still seem to young at 7 mths to breed and not get problems. I will wait till they are 15 to 18 mths old before breeding again. This is just what I do and others seem to not have problems with younger breeding. I have just decided this is what I am going to do from now on.
    I know some that breed younger and dont seem to have problems and I know if they are too fat they have more problems also. With my larger girls if they dont seem old enough they wait also. I know waiting seems hard but with my girls this is what I will do. JMO
    Kathy
     
  7. Odeon

    Odeon New Member

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    Ok, rule of thumb at Odeon ranch is freshen at 1 year. I HATE dry yearlings, and think they are pointless. These are dairy animals, and need to be milking. Also, why feed a doeling for an additional 365 days to see if you like what you see when she freshens.

    Ok, with that said... I HAVE kept dry yearlings due to them being late kids (I also HATE kidding from May on... again.. pointless in my opinion). I currently have two in the herd who were Oct 07 kids. The only reason they remained dry is so I could get them on a spring kidding schedule.

    Just my .02 cents... that and a buck, and you got a cup of coffee.

    Ken
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    not at Starbucks :)
     
  9. Odeon

    Odeon New Member

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    I didn't say "GOOD" coffee! :rofl
     
  10. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    :rofl
    Well the only doe that got bred here early had terrible problems and dead kid so am not doing it again. Also had a Mini LaMancha that the owner insisted on breeding her at 7 mo she aborted so am sticking with my tried and true over 1 yr old usually 18 mo when bred. Now that being said I have not tried breeding young since using the protocal of BoSe prior to breeding etc that gives smaller babies (multiples)
     
  11. Odeon

    Odeon New Member

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    I have had more difficult kidding with older does who are FAT, than with yearlings. Typically the birth weight of the kids is much less on yearlings.

    Ken
     
  12. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Ken....that's what I've seen here too.....less problems.

    .....and I figure that if I can't use these little goats much in the same way that folks do with their standard breeds, then I de-legitimize there standing as a real dairy breed.

    Hmmm....maybe this was one of the problems with the "old timers" accepting ND's as a ligament dairy breed to start with.


    Thanks for the input....I'm sure this will help a couple of our visitor's make the decisions on what route to take at their places.


    Whim
     
  13. when I had ND's I did 6 months old and 30 lbs.
    Becky
     
  14. Sunny Daze

    Sunny Daze New Member

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    I usually wait to breed them until a year or a little over, but it depends more on the individual goat. I have some that seem to be later bloomers than others. I have had some "oops" breedings in the past that kidded at about a year and I didn't have any problems.
     
  15. MysticHollowGoats

    MysticHollowGoats New Member

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    I have had similar experiences as Odeon. We go by weight and age, at least 40-45 lbs and typically between 7-9 months.
    When I was researching this online I found that the majority of the big name herds recommended at least 7 months and 40 lbs.
     
  16. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    When I had a couple of NDs I bought a dam and daughter. The dam was a yearling, the daughter a Feb. kid. I bred both in fall to a ND buck and both had easy kiddings. Each had a set of twins. Last year, I bought a ND X Nubian. She was a June baby so I decided to hold her back and breed her this fall because she will be bred Nubian. Her dam is a ND who was accidently bred Nubian and kidded at a year. The dam had no problem, but I consider that lucky because another freind also had an oops breeding when her LM buck bred a couple of her doelings. One required a C section and she lost the other because the kids were to big. Kathie
     
  17. LynninTX

    LynninTX New Member

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    With MM I thought it depended too on the goat and the generation???

    I was advised last yr to breed a 1st gen who was almost as big as my LM kids at the 7-9mos mark... I bred her at 7 months and we got 2 lovely kids from her and she is doing very well.

    I am breeding 1 late Jan MM now... higher generation but she is a big girl... and another will be bred in the next group....
     
  18. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Wasn't me that advised that :/
     
  19. LynninTX

    LynninTX New Member

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    Can't recall now Sondra... it was on here... since she was a 1st gen...
     
  20. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature Active Member

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    I have no Nigies, but do have mid-high generation MiniManchas. I bred them at 18 months following Sondra's advice and they kidded easier than my full-sized LM did. I will do the same again.