new babies/registration question

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Sheryl, Feb 25, 2008.

  1. Sheryl

    Sheryl New Member

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    woo hoo first babies of the season. One of my first fersheners!
    One buck born first of course, one doe. Mom's labor was a little slower that I would have liked. They were born around 10pm tonight. Mom is none too quick about passing afterbirth. I keep checking, may have missed it on my way back and forth from barn to house.

    Question. The dam is out of a 1/2 nubian 1/2 alpine bred to purebred nubian, so what will these babies be? I as assuming the buckling cannot be papered correct?

    I would post pic's, but I don't know how to do it on here.

    Sheryl
     
  2. KJFarm

    KJFarm Senior Member

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    Sheryl,
    These kids will be experimentals and no the buckling cannot be registered.
     

  3. Sheryl

    Sheryl New Member

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    Okay My confuscious Brain lol

    The Grandam Sinnamon is 1/2 alpine and 1/2 nubian so of course she's registered as experimental, Her daughter whom is the one that just kidded is 3/4 nubian 1/4 alpine and she was Bred to a Full Blood Nubian which I was assuming would make this little Doeling 100% American Nubian, but I wasn't sure about the buckling.
     
  4. KJFarm

    KJFarm Senior Member

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    Nope, anytime you cross breed, you will have Experimentals. Now if you have animals of the same breed, that are grade, then bred to registered, they can work up to American status, but will never be Purebred. The Experimentals can work up to American status, but will need to conform to breed standard.
     
  5. Odeon

    Odeon New Member

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    Actually Experimentals, who's generations are bred back (continually) to a specific breed pure/american buck (meaning always breeding back to Nubians.... etc), CAN reach American status. And in the case of LaManchas, can eventually reach purebred status, as the LaMancha herdbook is still open.

    Ken in Idaho
     
  6. Sheryl

    Sheryl New Member

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    okay so am I to understand that if I keep breeding each generation to Nubian, that some day I will have American Nubian? At what point or generation is that?

    Sinnamon 1/2 A 1/2 N bred to Purebred Nubian = Bebe
    Bebe ? bred to Purebred Nubian = 1 d 1 b ?
    this doeling bred to Purebred Nubian = ?

    I'm sorry to be a pita, but you have to draw me a picture before the little light bulb goes on.

    I havent' sent in registration on Bebe yet (yes I know shame on me) so what will that make her?
    what will it make her doeling? and what will it make that doelings offspring?

    Sorry, thanks in advance
    Sheryl
     
  7. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    The problem is what you are breeding up Nubian. It's very likely that your first 1/2 doe did not have correct Nubian ears or nose, so ethically the breeder although registered her experimental she could not be put down having correct breed standards. Same could be with the 3/4 doe you have now. So it's 3 generations of being bred to a purebred or American buck, and the kid must conform to breed standard. Get it? Advancing is only about being more of a percentage something, it is about being more of a percentage with correct breed character...and a Nubian breeder would be much more of a stikler about not checking that conforms to box than a swiss breeder would...we know how awful those short thick ears look in normal Nubian classes. vicki
     
  8. Shykid Acres

    Shykid Acres Guest

    The ADGA book states and I quote: "Where one parent is a registered animal, the doe offspring may be recorded as 1/2 American of that breed, provided she conforms to that breed standard. If such offspring is then mated to a registered buck of that same breed, the resulting doe offspring may be recorded as 3/4 of that breed, providing she conforms to that breed standard. These 3/4 does when mated to a registered buck of the same breed will produce kids that are 7/8 of that breed and does of this group are eligible for entry into the American section of the register, provided they meet that breed standard." -Page 33, part D par. 1

    Also page 34 under the section "NOTES" It states: "If the individual to be registered is anything but correct color and/or type, it is not eligible for entry into a breed herd book. It may, however, be recorded in an Experimental Register. If the individual conforms to breed standard but either parent does not, the animal still is not eligible for entry into the American section," ...(note about sables here)... "but it can be put into an Experimental Register."

    Hope this helps! ;)

    -Kimberly
     
  9. Shykid Acres

    Shykid Acres Guest

    There is also a note about standard-size versus 1/2 dwarf, pygmy, etc. There is a different rule there. But it does not apply to you so I won't bore you with it. :)
     
  10. Sheryl

    Sheryl New Member

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    :rofl clear as mud

    Okay I understand what Vicki is saying. I just haven't got all my papers updated, so forgot about the box that says conforms to breed standard.

    sinnamon is a beautiful doe with airplane ears. Her head is neither alpine nor nubian. Her daughter bebe looks more nubian, but alas I didn't get her disbudded so she has horns. Althougth bebe does have year that kinda flop they look like a daschound's ears if you know what I mean. But bebe's new doeling and buckling look like purebred nubians. So I'll send in the papers, mark the appropriate spots and see what happens, well I won't send them in on the buck, but I will the doeling.

    :yeahthat

    Thanks guys

    Sheryl
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    There is a different rule there.
    .................

    yep and the rule is you can't regsiter them :)

    Sheryl, ADGA will figure it out for you when you send in the applications. I know when we did LaMancha's not knowing how the previous applications were filled out on ear, it was a suprise when one of our does would turn American :) Vicki
     
  12. Odeon

    Odeon New Member

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    I don't mean to be "Dolly Downer" here, but one thing to think about, or at least in my area, is American Nubians tend to not be as popular, or as easy to sell. A LOT of Nubian breeders tend to be "purists". Dont get me wrong, there are some BEAUTIFUL Amercan Nubians, and one I can think of is a National Champion, but "typically" they don't bring as high of a price, nor are as sought after.

    Just something to think about

    Ken in Idaho
     
  13. KJFarm

    KJFarm Senior Member

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    You are right about that Ken, that's the reason my whole herd is Purebred. The Americans were just harder to sell and I sure couldn't get rid of an American buck.
     
  14. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I also wouldn't grade up to Nubian. I would grade up to anything American other than Nubian or purebred into LaMancha. In all other breeds you would have an American or Purebred worth more money, her kids would be worth more money.

    The whole American Nubian thing could be softened (not fixed) but softened if there were the generations of American that has been talked about since i was in ADGA printed on paperwork. So you know that your American Nubian isn't just American on extended pedigree, or was Experimental on extended pedigree....not a grade doe somewhere that could very likely be boer. Vicki