Needing flukacide/preg doe info

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by whimmididdle, Oct 31, 2008.

  1. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    OK.....so you better understand the question...here's my situation with a doe here right now.
    I have a 1 month bred doe, that is is showing a "little too high" liver fluke count on fecal test now (for my comfort). I thought that I had covered this problem with pre-breeding worming, but obviously I fell short of a good clean out.

    1. How much risk to I pose to the pregnancy by giving her a flukacide at this time ?

    2. Would valbazen be safer than Ivomec + to do this treatment with ?

    3. Would I pose less risk to this pregnancy if I can hold off treatment another month or so ? that is if only the preg doe is doing OK during that time.

    4. Could this situation subside/level off on its own as those preggy hormones start kicking in with the mother ?

    5. What is my risk to this doe if I do nothing ?

    OK....I already know the rumors and junk that floats around about worming preggy doe's with certain wormers.....so I'm not looking for second hand info. I'm looking for what has happened to you in these cases, or some pretty solid knowledge (1st hand) about it that you are sure of.

    Thanks so much for your time and thoughts on this topic.....and I encourage any other questions from others that can come into play here.


    Thanks, WHIM
     
  2. nitrors4

    nitrors4 Guest

    I wormed my doe at 3 months not knowing she was prego and everything turned out fine. Not sure that really proves anything, but wanted to share.
     

  3. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    OK.....but was you worming with a flukacide ?

    WHIM
     
  4. nitrors4

    nitrors4 Guest

    No it was Cydectin, which probably means I gave you worthless information. :/

    Dang who let the newb talk.
     
  5. Cotton Eyed Does

    Cotton Eyed Does New Member

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    :rofl :rofl :rofl

    Oh my goodness!! :laughcry

    I had a brain spasm last fall and I dewormed my boers one month bred with Valbazen and I aborted all of them except 1. I just wasn't thinking when I dewormed them.
     
  6. homeacremom

    homeacremom New Member

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    Whim, I have the same problem. :/ So I'll be watching this thread. I'm guessing it has something to do with weather conditions or simply a cyclical snail life??? Although it was dry most of the summer and my girls hardly graze at all.
     
  7. homeacremom

    homeacremom New Member

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    Or Valbazen not working as a flukacide? My girls are in milk and I prefer not to do Ivomec+ except during the dry period/late pregnancy.
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Never use wormer in first trimester unless health of goat needs it and then use ivormec plus per Sue Reith for liver flukes
     
  9. homeacremom

    homeacremom New Member

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    I forgot to say that I did give my girls some B vits, a few handfuls of pine needles for vitC daily and another BoSe because it seems the abrupt weather changes on top of newly bred and still in milk are stressing them. We had no frost until a few nights ago and then it FROZE.
     
  10. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    OK....some more info from here if it matters.
    This is my Alpine doe coming of 2 y.o. and 2nd freshening coming up.
    I've never seen this in my ND's before, and I still don't even now. The Alpine is a little bit more of a grazer than browser, but not by much in comparison to my ND's.

    Is maybe her flukes more resistant to worming, than say the ones in my ND's ? She did come in here from a different part of the country than my ND's did.....and hasn't been here but about 6 months.

    WHIM
     
  11. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Use Ivomec + at 1cc/50# every 10 days for 3 wormings. NOT VALBAZEN.

    That dose and regimin worked here to get clean fecals on the does. I now have a doe that I FINALLY have red eyelids and clean fecals on...after I learned how to tell a HC from a liverfluke and used this on last winter. She was about 2 months bred when I did this. That's not to say her liver is in any better shape, but at least it doesn't have to deal with damage from the parasites.
    Kaye
     
  12. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Thanks Yaw. I will probably approach this doe a little different next go around, and will probably put the IVO+ to her 3 times no matter what the fecals show pre-breeding.

    I usually have to make some management adjustments with different goats at different times, but this is more adjustment than I'm used to making within a short period of time.

    With the info at hand, I can weigh the risk and make an informed decision on what to do now......but think I'll wait a little longer to see what if any changes take place with her.

    Can I assume that the older those kids are/get inside of her, that there's a lesser chance of her aborting them if I put the IVO+ to her ?

    This doe is not in bad shape now......a little thin from having the pee milked out of her, but I dried her off a couple weeks ago, and I think she will pick that weight back up soon.

    WHIM
     
  13. Agape Oaks

    Agape Oaks Guest

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    OK...speaking of worming. I'm milking almost all my does until a few months before they freshen. In the past, or on my dry does, I'd worm with cydectin before breeding ....but with cydectin having a 56 day milk withdrawl, I don't like using it on my milkers. My fecals have been good, so is it OK to just wait until they're at 100 days to worm them as by then we've dried off anyways?
     
  14. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Pam ...I understand your question about worming, but I want you to make sure that some of the info above is liver fluke specific in a pregnant doe. Cydectin does not contain a flukacide like valbazen or IVO +........and evidence is out there that at least valbazen can abort a pregnancy sometimes. I just don't want to you to get confused about that, when getting the answers that you are looking for.

    WHIM
     
  15. nitrors4

    nitrors4 Guest

    I didn't think Cydectin had any milk withdrawl. Did I hit my head?
     
  16. Agape Oaks

    Agape Oaks Guest

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    Hi Whim
    I know- I normally use Ivomec + at 100 days....just normally use the cydectin prebreeding in dry does & in my milkers I haven't wormed since 10 days after they freshened. Fecals were OK in June
     
  17. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    """"Fecals were OK in June"""" Pam

    Mine did very well all summer too, but for some reason this fall I had a spike. I pre-bred wormed all the girls as I normally would, and got and still have good fecal results on all but this one doe........and she is fine except for this liver fluke spike right now.

    I'm gonna check on her more often from now on........Liver flukes is something that I haven't had trouble treating or staying clear of up 'til now.

    WHIM
     
  18. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    So what kind of numbers of flukes are you seeing? I don't even worm unless any numbers of worms hit 3000 to 6000 this time of year with the girls bred. If you really are seeing numbers this high than worm, otherwise wait.

    A flukeicide is a flukeicid, I would choose Ivermectin plus if my doe was dry I would choose valbazen if my does was in milk.

    But I would use a chambered slide and count and I would not worm if the numbers weren't high enough to warrant worming this early in pregnancy. Vicki
     
  19. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Vicki...as I don't use the chambered slides yet, those numbers don't calculate with me. I'm still on the slide and slip cover method.....and I basically have went from 4-6 flukes on a 1x1 inch area, up to 15-20 fluke eggs now with this doe. All the rest of mine are still staying low.....0-3 egg(s) range.

    I guess I'm trying not to over react about this thing, like my vet usually does.

    WHIM
     
  20. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    So what is the range you use on this 1inch square? You don't worm with 0-3, 4 to 6...15-20? If it was HC would you worm at 15-20? IF you have this scale, than what is considered "you need to watch and worm" or "worm or their dead"? That is why I like not only the McMasters but the hard and fast rules...note I always have hard and fast rules, that way I don't get to interpert anything because I am basically lazy and would interpert towards not doing anything :) So 300 to 600 I don't do anything spring and summer and early fall. Although they would be refecaled in 21 days to make sure those numbers were not rising. 3000 to 6000 bred and winter....I wouldn't worm until it was in those numbers.

    Being so important not to overwinter arrested larve in your goats or in the ground in the north, next year think about using a wormer like Kaye suggests so her last round of wormer to kill all adult worms coincides with the month you are breeding.

    Vicki