Need help, retained placenta or possible dead kid in there

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by MRFBarbara, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. MRFBarbara

    MRFBarbara Guest

    HI All
    I had a doe kid last night at 5 pm, it has now been 24 hours, first freshener of course, two live kids, doing well.. She passed a complete placenta a couple of hours later as normal.. she still has a piece of something hanging from her, it is starting to smell bad, I tried gently to tug out, but I believe her cervix is closed now..
    She is not running a temp
    She is not eating much
    Has a little milk, not much
    She is straining a little, trying to pass something
    She does not act as though she feels like herself, but she just kidded,
    She has been given, Bo_Se, vitamin B, wormed, probios
    I did not go in last night, did a belly bump and could not feel anything else, she is a Nigerian and very small, I don't think I can get my hand in there..
    What can I do to help her, should I give her Oxy, or Lute or both..
    I do not want to lose this doe,
    If I lute her and get her cervix open again, should i do a uterine flush with antibiotics..??
    Any help appreciated.. Vet said just Oxy, but it has been more than five to six hours.. Don't you just know it, I have never dealt with this one before.. Lucky me..
    Barbara
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    depends on if there is another kid in there. if you think there is a possibility then lute and oxy
    but don't take my word for it wait for Kaye or Vicki
     

  3. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    :yeahthat Honestly Barb, If you think there's a stuck kid in there, and you think she's too small for your hands, well then, I'd be finding me someone who had smaller hands.. really.. if she has a retained kid and it's presenting with it's back to the cervix or the head/neck is turned and it's before the cervix, you are going to NEED to get in there and rearrange it.. it will not come out on it's own. As for the oxy/lute I would do what Sondra said and get a hold of Vicki or Kaye.. we'll be prayin for ya!!
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    So your hands are bigger than the kids that came out :) I don't think so. Although it's rare for a cervic to close down around a whole kid, it could happen, and it's why I preach doing pelvics right after you deliever what you think is the last kid or last placenta. I search around before the placentas.

    Either way everything is pointing to another placenta or perhaps a kid. And one kid could have been in one horn, the other in the other with their own placentas. Or she has a rip on her cervic which you should be able to feel. The rip goes in and causes her to push it out. Banamine will help with this. If she isn't bleeding the rip is no biggy and will quickly heal.

    Picking up just a few cc of oxytocin from the vet for this is of course hindsite, it should be part of everyones tool chest before kidding starts. But yes oxytocin, the cervic is not closed as in giving oxytocin before a doe has kidded, closed.

    1/4cc IM and banamine....start manipulating that cervic back open.... this has nothing to do with size of the doe, it's about what you want the oxytocin to do, then 1/2 cc in 2 more hours, sit in the pen and ring your hand around and around inside the doe getting that cervic open...just closed and likely not all the way closed it should open easily. The contractions should make the placenta part eaisly detatch. With even just your hand in and pressing up against you hand from outside the doe, like pulling her towards you hand you should easily feel a hard mass that could be a kid or feel the liver feeling of another placenta. You can give oxytocin every 2 hours for awhile with no problems, of course the doe is very uncomfortable.

    I would think you would already have fever if this was anything bad.

    Also anything hanging like this is worse for your nose than the doe if she is acting normal...now this whole not milking thing especially if she should have milk in that udder tends to make you automatcially think uterine infection, it's the number one side.

    And yes the last act is a uterine flush. Tetracycline, and the valuableness :) of the doe Naxcel or?

    I am fairly certain we put in goatkeeping 101 info on infusing after this is all over by Kaye, although the getting that doe bred by Sue Reith also has it, and continue with the 1/4 cc of oxytocin until her cervic is shut after you have gone in and seen what is what. The contractions will help her clean.

    Antibiotics and keep up the banamine. Cleanliness can't be stressed enough and a feed sack freshly opened up under the doe, clean the vulva, then another clean sack.

    I hope you only found placenta piece, or better yet just a rip in the cervic upon your first exam...and dont' let a tight vagina fool you into not proceeding it just had those kids come out of it remember?

    In a small goat your only other option is ultrasound which is super iffy...or waiting and watching...

    First of course go bear hug her uterus from behind, bear hugging in front of her udder, really pulling up, she should be VERY uncomfortable when you do this, lots of milking 1/4 cc of oxytocin, then see if you can pull this placenta...not yank. OK that is all I can think of. Vicki
     
  5. MRFBarbara

    MRFBarbara Guest

    Thanks so very much, I have the oxy now, hubby got it from vet.. gave her some and some banamine.. I am going to go in the open her up and bear hug.. Let you all know tomorrow..
    thanks..
    Barbara
     
  6. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Thinking of you. Praying for the best outcome.

    Whim
     
  7. Legend Hills

    Legend Hills New Member

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    Hoping all goes well. Keep us posted.

    Kim
     
  8. Belle

    Belle New Member

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    Best wishes that everything goes well!
     
  9. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Definately give the lute. 1cc IM. if this is a ND-2cc IM if she's a standard. It will open the cervix. Which you're going to need, be it uterine infection or retained kid/placenta. It should be opening within 12 hrs. Also the oxytocin. If it's none of the above...it won't hurt her. But keep her away from the bucks.
    Kaye
     
  10. Nancy

    Nancy New Member

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    Hope everything goes ok.
     
  11. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    Hoping all went well.

    Patty
     
  12. Terry

    Terry Member

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    Hoping all is well.
    Terry
     
  13. Nancy

    Nancy New Member

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    Any news yet?
     
  14. MRFBarbara

    MRFBarbara Guest

    Well, I think all is going good, I luted her, oyxied her and bear hugged alot... Got my hand in there and got her cervix open.. There is no kid, but pieces of placenta, which I cleaned out.. I then flushed her with antibiotics and oh the nasty stuff that came out.. flushed her alot..
    She also is on banamine.. and doing good today, eating, and feeling better..
    Thanks, Vicki, Kaye and Sonda,,, this will teach me to keep oxy on hand.. first time for me..
    Barbara
     
  15. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Very good news.
    Kaye
     
  16. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Outstanding ! You did a good job. I was concerned about getting back in there......We know all to well how small these ND's are don't we.
    I would keep up with the flushing at least twice a day for the next 3 or 4 days.....maybe longer. Think the vet had me go 5 days on one down here last year.

    Whim
     
  17. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    I doubt the doe's cervix will be open that long. Even if it was I wouldn't want to flush that often as the antibiotics can really irritate the cervix.

    I would think that when you flushed that often Whim you were just flushing in the vaginal tract rather than into an open cervix.

    Glad to hear you had a good outcome Barb. Watch the doe for signs of an infection - fever, no milk, smelly discharge, etc.

    Sara
     
  18. MRFBarbara

    MRFBarbara Guest

    I have heard that antibiotics can irritate her, I will pass on flushing her every day.. Thanks Sara, I am taking her temp twice a day and watching her closely.. She is still draining some nasty stuff, which I wash off, so I can tell when it stops or how much If I am lucky.. She is perky now and feeding her kids good with more milk..
    Hopefully I caught everything on time, I will have oxy next year here and ready to go...
    Barb
     
  19. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    Sounds like things are going good! yippie :)