Necropsy results...Nitrate Poisoning?-Update on Thiamine post

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by rg1950, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    To all who are not familiar with my previous posting https://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,5244.0.html. We took him to Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostics Laboratory at Tx A&M on Monday. He died on Friday morning, I put him in the fridge and brought him to A&M Monday in a disposable ice chest with ice packs. I got the results in today from a necropsy and histopath.
    Respiratory system: nasal cavity, larynx, and trachea ar all clear-no foreign bodies. The lungs are normal.
    Circulatory System: No gross Lesions
    Digestive system: No Gross lesions
    Urogenital System: Stomach compartments contain green colored ingesta. Entire digestive system appears to be slightly pale.
    Lymphatic system: Kidneys are slightly pale. There is about 100 ml yellow colored urine in bladder. No stone is found in the urogenital system.
    Endocrine system: No gross lesions
    Musculoskeletal system: Muscular system appear slightly pale
    ear/eye, special senses: No gross lesions
    Nervous system: no gross lesions
    Necropsy Diagnosis: Necropsy findings do not reaveal he cause of death. Further testing in progress

    HISTOPATH
    Description: Sections of the cerebrum, cerebellum, and brain stem are examined; no significant lesions are recognized. There is no histologic evidence of polioencehalomalacia (PEM) and evaluation of the submitted brain under UV light does not reveal the yellow fluorescence of typical PEM.

    Under that it says: Nitrate and Prussic Acid Levels may go up: Once again, nitrate and prussic acid season is upon us. As the drought conditions continue across mot of the state farmers and producers eed to be aware of th potential hazards that some plants can pose upon livestock. Duing this dry season, plants will accumulate excess nitrogen an cyanide from th soil and cause them to possily contan unsafe levels for livestock. If a region of the state receives a rainfall (as with the tropical storm that hit Tuesday, just 4 days before he died, which the eye passed right over where we live) and these plants begin to grow, they can also become high in nitrates and prussic acid. Generally once a plant is "heded out" it becomes mature enough that prussic acid is ess of a concern. However, the plant can still contain an unsafe level of nitrates. If you are concerne about possible unsafe levels of nitrates and prussic acid in hay, the best advice is for you to send a sample to the lab for analysis. We have critical information for sampl collection, sample size and sample submission procedures posted on our website at http://tvmdlweb.tamuedu. Please refer to this site to ensure that your sample s collcted and submitted properly for prompt accurte results. You can also access our website to learn which plants possess the capability of acquiring these unsafe levels.

    So basically, no cause of death determined. I do know we had a long dry drought where the grass and weeds didn't grow, then several days of rain from Eduard. Don't know if it was nitrate poisoning or not. I do know it wasn't parasites or polio. So over $80 later, I am still dumbfounded. We lost 2 goats that same day. The one we took for autopsy (necropsy) and a boer doeling the same age. Both had the same symptoms with same issues. Neither would eat any grain or hay. All they would eat was grass. I plan to take samples and send them in for testing for the grass (and hay, just in case). Don't know if it would detect anything this far after the storm, but its worth a try.

    Tara
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    That would make sense. Last weekend we had a bumper crop of cucumbers so my MIL made salads for the party. The cukes were horrible, really really bitter. Vicki
     

  3. Wendy Tinney

    Wendy Tinney New Member

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    I wondered about the grass coming up after it was so dry. Is it saying that it's more like the spring bloat that goats can get? Or just certain plants do this?

    Wendy
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I know certain grasses, fescue etc...set up acids in them when stressed...Johnson grass, hay grazer, sudan etc...why they are conditioned when cut and also why they are tested before bailing. We are mostly coastal bermuda here...we got alot more rain today, the girls were out most of the day grazing, sort of does freak me out :) Vicki
     
  5. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    It is scary to think a "normally innocent" plant could kill your animals. I will be doing more research on this. UUGGG!!!! Raising goats is hard. First year, stomach worms, second year, coccidia, this year...grass with excess nitrates!!! I don't know what to do!!! You live you learn....My motto. Unfortunately, learning involves loosing animals of value.

    Tara
     
  6. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    Johnson grass is notorious for this in drought or sudden frost conditions.
     
  7. Wendy Tinney

    Wendy Tinney New Member

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    I always thought the bloat came from all of the sudden having green grass (ie. in the spring). I had no idea some plants put off acids in stress. So, I guess, that my thought of the "green" rye grass in winter makes no difference on the "green" plants coming up for spring? So no way to take care of this, except just being prepared for acidosis?

    Wendy
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Don't know if it is true or not but have always heard to make sure the goats have hay prior to being let out on fresh green pastures thus preventing bloat/acidosis
     
  9. KJFarm

    KJFarm Senior Member

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    You really need to let freshly baled hay "rest" for at least a couple of weeks also.
     
  10. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I know that's true of alfalfa hay. Goats can get nitrogen poisining if fed hay that has not cured. When my friend ran her dairy, one of her helpers mistakenly fed off the wrong stack and she lost a couple of pregnant does that way. When we were doing meat goats on mountain pasture with another couple, we lost a couple of does to stressed plants. Kathie
     
  11. Secondairy

    Secondairy Member

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    How long should Alfalfa in the north be cured before feeding? I am supposed to pick up 50-80 bales this Friday, and was going to use it right away, but now am a little concerned after reading the previous posts on this thread. We have not had drought conditions - just the opposite, almost. I also have access to well cured orchard grass and Timothy - should I feed this over the next few weeks and give the Alfalfa some 'store time'? If so, how long should it cure?

    Kelly :)