My Problem with Hand Milking

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Daniel Babcock, Jun 18, 2008.

  1. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Thanks for your comments on my prior thread about using a breast pump for milking goats.

    I understand what everyone is saying about the importance of learning how to hand milk, I agree and would prefer to hand milk as it is a little more labor intensive and the primary reason we have gotten into goats is to raise children and teach them responsibility and work.

    We are in reality raising children not goats . . . it would be counter productive to make this too easy for them right ;) ;)

    Another important reason is to provide healthy milk, butter etc for our family. ( a byproduct of these reasons has become our love for these animals, they are somewhat addicting, I find myself wanting more already, and we have only had ours for 2 weeks.)

    Now we are fully committed to proper animal husbandry I read about the history of milkers and realized challenges caused by simply attaching a vacuum to a teat.

    My concern with hand milking is sanity. As we studied pasteurization I realized how important this was for the commercial dairy industry, anytime something is commercialized there will be losses in quality, the major loss in the dairy industry was sanitation, it took longer (therefore more $$) to properly clean the animal and equipment than to just pasteurize the milk.

    It seems if one could maintain sanitary equipment (ie milk bucket etc) and eliminate the dust, hair, fecal particulate, bugs, body secretions etc there would be little need for pasteurization. However I don't know how to do this with an open bucket between the legs and under the udder and belly of a goat.

    I would prefer to hand milk if we could eliminate open bucket contamination! :help :help

    Help this nubie understand
     
  2. Truly

    Truly New Member

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    I hand milk in an open bucket. If I'm using the milk for family, I run it thru a milk filter when I get it in the house. If it's just for the kids(4-legged), it goes straight in the pasteurizer.

    Now I do wipe down the udder and belly area b4 the milk goes under the goat. I also pour the milk from the bucket into bottles thru a metal mesh coffee filter between goats. This gets out the "big" stuff.

    The bucket is run thru the dishwasher on the sanitize cycle. I love that cycle for my milking equipment.
     

  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Maybe a field trip is in order??? Do you have a large commercial dairy in your area? The reason for pasteurization is filth, true nasty disgusting manure filth. The cows and alot of goats lay in it, it is only a 'pull the liscense or give you a warning' offense if the mud and cr*p is up to the flank...THE FLANK!!!! long before mud is caked on a flank it is all over the teats and udder. Then the washing of the udder starts, sorry but unless you are washing them from the flanks down, there is drippy poopy water going into the inflations as they are attached....forget the reason they pasteurise is because of hand milking...it's because of filth...Boiled pasteurised filth kills less people each year than raw filth :)

    You are going to shave udders and bellies. Put the girls on the milkstand, give them a good brushing, and you can also do like we did...we used to hand milk (me and my two daughters) 36 goats year round...which meant four pens of 20 goats in some form of lactation or pregnancy year round. I used the half moon lid buckets from Hoeggers and we used a rubber band to hold butter muslin from wallmart that I hemmed over the top of it. So we were milking into the butter muslin...each milking was then poured into a large stainless tote that held frozen soda bottles (if this was customer milk) or into 3 and 1/2 gallon buckets that we froze full for our contract...a candy maker in houston (she made Mexican pralines and cajeta).

    So shoot for family milk....you wash the teats, udder and belly, dry with a paper towel, wash your hands and then milk...strain the milk and take it into the house in covered containers. It will be cleaner than any milk you could possibly purchase. vicki
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Totally agree with Vicki here. When I hand milked I washed belly and udders which I do anyway even with the maching also shaving the belly legs and udder makes for no hair in the milk. I milked into a small stainless steal bucket and immediately strained into 1/2 gal glass jars that were kept in ice water until going to the house to put in frig or freezer.
     
  5. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Vicki i have been in many daries, I understand the filth. I appreciate your common sense rational.

    Still if I can control the filth, trim, pre and post dip and thoroughly clean the equipment then machine milking would be the best alternative right.

    Not to change the subject but . . . I don't fully understand is why pasteurize for the kids (goats) and not my kids (children)? Is this for CAE?

    There seem to be a lot of people that leave the kids on their mothers to milk this milk is raw (unpasteurized).
     
  6. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    You are thinking way to hard about all of this. Pasterization came about when they moved cows from small family owned farms to the cities were the larger populations were . They were housed in dirty dark conditions.

    Join raw milk groups on yahoo. Yes some of them are nuts but you will see many people drink raw with no ill effects.

    I have lupus my immune system is shot ...if anyone would get sick from raw milk it would be me . Have I ? No ..just the opposite since going to raw goats milk and other changes I have been off almost all meds for 5 years .


    Yes you pasterize milk for kids because of CAE>

    Patty
     
  7. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Patty you are awesome! I guess I am a little too excited about this!!! And am enjoying the brainstorming a little too much!

    Is CAE more prevelant in some states/areas?

    I made sure my goats were CAE and CL certified and brucelosis but some breeders I have spoken with say it is not very common where I live in Utah?
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    The problem is Daniel that when the mini's first got started they were bred from ND which of course you know and back then at that time ND herds were all virtually CAE FREE and also CL free. However now with the Boer herds being brought into the US CL runs rampant and they have been bred with our LaMancha does also of course other breeds now. or people run both dairy and meat. Thus the spread of CL and CAE has increased over the years because people didn't manage and do pasteurizing of the milk for the babies. Many many ND breeders still do not do this and keep a closed herd. However because CAE can show up years and years later as positive there is no other sure way to prevent CAE unless you pasteurize and pull babies at birth. Many many people are demanding now that if they purchase kids they be raised on CAE prevention. So if you want to sell kids and get good prices then in my opinion it is the only way to go.
     
  9. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    And you have tested your goats for CAE yourself? And you saw the paperwork on the herd you bought from with your own two eyes? Most folks are lulled into a false sense of security about CAE. Most new folks test for the first time and find CAE in their herd. I pastuerize milk for my kids because nobody would buy a goat from me unless on prevention. And in reality I know that my butter soft mastitis free udders are because my doelings aren't nursing dams. You pasteurise away alot more than just the CAE virus to benefit your doelings. And alot of folks think you pasteurise away all the good stuff for the kids also.

    My family has drank our raw milk for 22 years now which includes children and now grand children. But they are my goats. Would I buy raw milk and feed to my kids and grandkids...no, not unless I knew the person very very well. Vicki
     
  10. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    Vicki, one of these days you need to re-post that list of diseases that is passed by feeding raw milk. I want that for my records!

    To be honest, I (mom- that would be me) milks far cleaner than anyone else. Dad is somewhat behind me, and the kids are way below. What we do with the children is this:

    A Stainless steel tote with a strainer/filter set up on a low table beside the milk stand. Then we have the kids milk in a small pan and after every ten or so squirts they dump the milk in the strainer. This is also what we do when we have a kicker. Instead of a tote you can also use glass jars. The strainers should fit in a wide mouth jar. Anytime a foot gets in the pan, it goes into the house to be washed. Otherwise milk and dump.

    Give the goats a bath and clip them all over, after that just clip the udder and belly when the hairs get about an inch in length. You can use a brush or after you have cleaned the udder to wipe the belly down so no hair falls in the milk. We milk with gloves on. I'm so used to that I don't want to go back to doing it bare handed. Teach the kids to milk when the udder is dry and clean, and make sure the kids wash their hands too. (mine often forget to) If it's muddy, then you may need to clean the udder twice and also wipe down the belly and legs. Always use a teat dip after and teach the kids that too!

    Don't leave the milk sitting around in warm weather so get into jars or jugs, and chill it.

    Nothing wrong with thinking about what you are doing, but don't let all "what if's" keep you from enjoying raw milk. It's really safe for us homesteader types, much more so than big dairies.
     
  11. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    1)"We are in reality raising children not goats" Us too. This is why we remind ourselves when we find a job undone "we didnt have children to do chores, we added chores to train children".

    2)Having watched hand milking and machine milking in relatively small set-ups (less than 12 goats or so) WE feel that it actually may be cleaner to hand milk. We can take the time to carefully wash our hands between each goat, carefully wash each udder, it just gives us better control. We could see more opportunity for bacteria to grow with milking by machine, if you dont clean the inflations well between, tubes, etc. Now dont get me wrong, I beleiev that clean milking by machine can be done, and when we go to machine milking it will look as close to Vicki M's protocol as possible. But we could easily see more chance for cleanliness to be overlooked with machine. AND if there is a problem with one goat's milk, it is easier to seperate out milk when milking by hand.

    3)If you were to pasteurize for your own children it would be for a different set of illnesses than for the baby goats...the biggie for me is listeria which hits the very young, old and immunocompromised hard. But for me the biggest woudl be to make sure that milk fed to pregnant women is pasteurized due to the harm to a pregnancy from listeria. Now do we pasteurize here? Not for the general household. We do for me when preg (which means that I dont drink it for I hate the 'cooked' taste LOL) and for very young babies--I am already itching to stop pasteurizing for our 2 month old! In truth I feel it likely not necessary as we have been in goats long enough now, I think, at 3 years to be able to know when the feed or the animals are 'off' (in fact I have a reputation for noticing stupid tiny details and panicking!) but as a midwife it is one concession to pasteurizing that I cannot bringmyself to break!

    4)"There seem to be a lot of people that leave the kids on their mothers to milk this milk is raw (unpasteurized). "

    human mothers or animal mothers? :lol Actually if you think about it, [email protected] IS raw...hmmm...at anyrate yes, some do not raise kids on CAE prevention. SOme do it simply because it is more natural. Some because they feel safe, having had so many yrs of neg CAE tests. For many people the truth is that it does not really serve to protect their animal's health, but the health of their pocketbooks--most people can simply get more $$$ from the sale of kids raised via CAE prevention methods.
     
  12. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Vicki Sondra Jo and LeeAnne you are all amazing!
    Thanks so much. I am excited to read and learn more so I can help others as you have me. I hope I don't wear everyone out with my questions and enthusiasm. This has been a informative and very helpful thread! One that has helped me solidify a number of things at an early stage that will benefit my family and herd for years to come. Thanks!