Mineral Question

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Country-Brooks Farm, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. Country-Brooks Farm

    Country-Brooks Farm New Member

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    Is a loose mineral with 14.0% magnesium too much??

    Cody
     
  2. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature New Member

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    I don't know anything about the maximum. I use Cargill Right Now Onyx and the tag says magnesium 3.0% minimum. My eyes are bad and the tag is small, I think I am reading it right :D
     

  3. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    My Sweetlix is 1.5 %
    ADM is 1.45 %

    so I have no idea why one would have 14%
     
  4. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Tell you what....I'm gonna post the mineral that I use and many in my area use, just to where you can make some comparisons

    SWEETLIX

    Guaranteed Analysis
    Calcium (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14.00%
    Calcium (Max) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16.80%
    Phosphorus (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.00%
    Salt (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10.00%
    Salt (Max) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.00%
    Magnesium (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.50%
    Potassium (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.50%
    Sulfur (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.50%
    Iron (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.25%
    Manganese (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.25%
    Zinc (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.25%
    Cobalt (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240 ppm
    Copper (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,750 ppm
    Copper (Max) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,810 ppm
    Iodine (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 450 ppm
    Selenium (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 ppm
    Vitamin A (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000 IU/lb.
    Vitamin D-3 (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50,000 IU/lb.
    Vitamin E (Min) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400 IU/lb.
    Ingredients
    Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Cane
    Molasses, Soybean Hulls, Magnesium Oxide, Potassium Chloride, Copper Sulfate,
    Yeast Culture, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Oxide,
    Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Molybdate, Iron Oxide (as a coloring agent), Sodium
    Selenite, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement,
    Vitamin E Supplement, Mineral Oil and Caramel Flavoring.
    CAUTION: Contains added copper. DO NOT FEED TO SHEEP. Daily
    consumption of selenium should not exceed 0.7 mg per head.
    Mineral Program
    Sweetlix® 16:8 Meat Maker® is a 2:1 calcium to phosphorus mineral scientifically
    formulated to be fed to goats on pasture on a free choice basis. Sweetlix® 16:8
    Meat Maker® helps goats attain maximum performance by providing a complete
    vitamin and trace mineral supplement, which includes copper and selenium,
    designed especially for the needs of meat goats. High quality ingredients are
    selected to deliver optimal nutrition to your goats.
    Feeding and Management
    Sweetlix® 16:8 Meat Maker® should be fed free choice continuously as the sole
    FREE CHOICE source of salt and minerals at the rate of 0.3 to 0.5 oz. per head per
    day. When consumed at this rate, Sweetlix® 16:8 Meat Maker® will provide 0.4 to
    0.7 mg selenium.
    Provide at least 1 mineral feeder per 10 head of goats for access purposes. Locate
    mineral feeders near a clean, fresh source of water. Mineral consumption levels will
    vary depending upon the mineral status of the goats.
    For additional information, please contact your SWEETLIX® representative.
    10/06
    NET WEIGHT: 25 LBS. (11.3 KG)
    16:8 Meat Maker®
    A Free Choice Mineral and Vitamin Supplement
    for Meat Goats on Pasture
    Manufactured By Sweetlix, PO Box 8500, Mankato, MN 56002
    Contact us at: 1-87SWEETLIX • www.sweetlix.com 987
     
  5. Bethany

    Bethany New Member

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    I use sweetlix as well, the goats love it and I love the price! :crazy
     
  6. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    That specific mineral is for Grass Tetany in cattle.

    Preventing Grass Tetany. Grass tetany is also known as magnesium tetany or grass staggers. It usually occurs in cows during early lactation, especially during cool weather in spring or fall when cool season forages come out of dormancy and grow rapidly. Although the highest risk is in spring, grass tetany can occur in the middle of winter or summer when unusual weather results in rapid growth on farms where fertility (especially nitrogen and potassium) is high.

    The magnesium oxide may be in a commercial high-mag mineral (10-14% Mg) or when an outbreak occurs, it should be mixed at 6% of a grain mix and fed at 1-2 lb/head/day.

    What is the name of your mineral? I would certainly be changing to a mineral with no more than 4% mag.

    Lots of us use a cattle mineral but we read the tags first.
    Kaye
     
  7. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Kaye this is that whole Mary Kellogg mineral thing going on. I was told that even our club is adopting this program. Sure maybe Oklahoma has this kind of magnesium need, do we? No. At least they were given the info on the importants of adding salt to this formula. Vicki
     
  8. Pairaka

    Pairaka New Member

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    So these levels of copper are okay for goats? I was looking at the 16:8 Meat Maker mix and wondering about that. Of course, if I'd just looked at the tag on the bag of the mineral mix I get from the local co-op (like I just did (look, that is)) I would have seen that it's got comprable levels. But my goats don't seem to eat it very well. They do eat it, but it seems like they only eat it when I go out to make sure there are no goat berries in the feeder mouth (we've got self-constructed PVC Y-type mineral feeders) and to break loose any chunks that may have formed, but other than that, they don't seem to pay much attention.

    I would like to get more copper into them, but I don't think I really need to go the bolusing route and I'm definitely not going to give them copper sulfate. I think I've got a few does that are borderline deficient (some losing hair on their tails, and a wee bit of rust color on my two black does), but other than their mineral mix, I'm not sure what to do. Comparing the tags, I see the Meat Maker isn't as high in salt as the one I'm using (21% min-25% max) but even with that much salt, they still lick at their salt lick (just a plain, white salt lick). Which leads me to believe that they're not eating the minerals and instead getting extra salt from the lick.

    Would it possibly be better to switch to something like this? The mineral mix I currently use is mixed by our co-op system (TN) and has Zinpro (the vitamin and microminerals) added to it.

    Suggestions would be appreciated.
     
  9. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    get the salt lick out of there.
     
  10. Pairaka

    Pairaka New Member

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    It would perhaps be more helpful to explain why instead of just making a statement to do something. If I'm doing something wrong, I want to know why it's wrong instead of just being told "you're wrong."

    If they're going after the salt like, they want the salt. I don't have the room or the materials to offer this mineral and that mineral free choice. How will getting rid of the salt lick solve anything? I don't have any problem with disease; my goats are all healthy.
     
  11. coso

    coso Guest

    They put the salt in the mineral so they will eat the mineral. If you have a plain salt block out there beside the mineral they will lick this and not eat enough mineral.
     
  12. Pairaka

    Pairaka New Member

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    Okay, that I can understand. Perhaps I should have said that I put the salt lick in there because they weren't eating the mineral mix. The bucks (in their own pens) eat it just fine. The does won't. They leave it if I mix it with their food and they only seem interested in the mineral mix if I'm messing with the feeder. That was when I put the salt lick in there for them.
     
  13. Country-Brooks Farm

    Country-Brooks Farm New Member

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    The mineral i was speaking of IS a cow mineral. The mineral i am currently using doesn't have as much calcium, copper, and selenium as the mineral with the 14% magnesium. There is another mineral that i would try that is 2% magnesium but also on the label is says do not feed to sheep or goats due to high levels of supplemental copper. But, the copper is 1,300 (min)??

    Cody
     
  14. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature New Member

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    I always check the salt content of the loose minerals I use. For instance, Purina has something like 40% salt so the goats get satisfied quickly and take in less of the minerals they need. The cargill has 14-18% so the goats will eat more of it and therefore take in more of the minerals. I no loger ever use Purina because of this. I have huge copper issues out here and have to feed not only the best minerals I can find, but also bolus the goats with copper.
     
  15. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    "my goats don't seem to eat it very well. They do eat it, but it seems like they only eat it when I go out to make sure there are no goat berries in the feeder mouth (we've got self-constructed PVC Y-type mineral feeders) and to break loose any chunks that may have formed, but other than that, they don't seem to pay much attention"

    I have found that with my five does they like only "fresh" minerals. So, I only give about 1/2 to 1 cup at a time and give more when it is empty...which is often, at times even twice a day. If I fill the mineral tub up with minerals, they will go untouched and ruined and wasted.
     
  16. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature New Member

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    Mine are picky too. I keep my bag of minerals in the house...in the redneck living room, by the saddles. I carry it out by the red plastic coffee can full everyday and give them all fresh minerals. They will not eat minerals over 24 hours old but scarf down the fresh like it is sweetfeed or something.
     
  17. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    Goats do not know what they need for minerals ...they eat the mineral salt to get there fill of salt ..therefore putting a salt block in they have no need to eat the minerals. Does that make more sense ?


    Patty
     
  18. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Wendy, since you are kinda asking a question off of my post....let me see if I can help you maybe a little. I am currently using the sweetlix above and have been for over a year. My goats don't just go in and gobble large amounts of this stuff at any one time......my doe's will often go to my mineral dish just after feeding times, and then they usually just take a lick or 2 at it.....then they go get water. I'm not really sure what all drives them to eat more some times than others, but it does go in spells here. My 3 ND doe's will sometimes lap up maybe 2 cups a week, and then only 1 cup the next.
    I'll let these Gal's correct me if I'm wrong....but goats will crave salt, and also like the sugar....so I think that is why sweetlix is trying to mix theirs with both........Sondra is right about moving out the salt block....It is satisfying their cravings enough that they don't want any more from anywhere else.
    It's gonna be very hard to know if you goats are gonna be copper deficient or not, unless you raise one up on your normal management, then slaughter it, and have a liver biopsy taken and tested. I am in East central AL. and we don't have as much trouble with selenium and copper levels as other area's do.
    If after removing the salt block for a few days/several days, your goats still don't lick at the mins. that you are using....I would consider something else. Oh yea, don't let them fool you....they will lick the ground, rack, board, or wherever the salt block has been setting until they get up all the salt that has leached into it.

    BTW- I am not promoting using the sweetlix brand.......it just happens to be one of the two that I can buy locally without paying special order fees. For my area, I think it is an OK supplement though.
    Lots of these gal's out west of here are very high on Blue Bonnet mins., but it appears that nobody in AL. carries any of their mins.,,,, just some B.B. feeds.
    I hope this has helped some.....and I welcome any corrections in what I have told her in this post.

    Whim
     
  19. Pairaka

    Pairaka New Member

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    This is something that I've found lots of people around here seem to think, too: That goats can't tolerate these high levels of copper. I'm taking a Meat Producers Class through our local extension office to qualify for our state's cost share program (don't get me started on the requirements for this...) and while most of the people in the class (and teaching it!) are sheep people, the course materials also mention that goats have a sensitivity to copper--like sheep. In fact, I think I've read the same thing in some of the more "popular" goat books available; I was very confused about this issue for quite a long time and was trying to find feeds and such *without* copper for my goats!

    -- Wendy
     
  20. Pairaka

    Pairaka New Member

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    Thank you for your replies everyone. I'll take the salt lick out tomorrow and see if they start eating the minerals or not. If not, I'll see about changing how I feed them. And if that doesn't work, I'll change mineral mixes.

    -- Wendy