Milking hereself thin

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Daniel Babcock, Oct 9, 2008.

  1. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    I have been searching diligently for an exceptional LaMancha doe. I recently had a discussion with a prominent breeder, who has a doe they are trying to sell me. They have a first freshener out of excellent pedigree. 5 generations of 90 or more LA.

    This first fresher, is quite thin, and the breeder suggests that she milked herself thin. I did not notice this in any of the other goats in the herd. When I questioned the breeder, she suggested that the fact that she milked herself thin was an indication of her willingness and desire to milk.

    For some reason that did not ring very true to me.

    When a goat milks thin, all other feeding and care needs being the same, is it a result of genetics? A will to milk, the fact that she cant keep up with her production? Or what?

    Thanks
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I have a LM who looks like death warmed over every year except after we dri her off and she puts back on weight. So yes there will be heavy producers that are very thin while milking , reason why you want them in the best condition possible prior to breeding. That being said I also would wonder if this were the only doe on the lot THIN. maybe she was a bred before being big enough or too young.
     

  3. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I have a yearling who got thin after having twins. They were bucklings, so I left them on her. When they were about 10 or 12 weeks old, I sent them to auction so she wouldn't have greedy kids draining her 24/7. With twice a day milking and top dressing her grain with calf manna, she's put on some weight and now looks healthy and ready to breed soon. Kathie
     
  4. Ravens Haven

    Ravens Haven New Member

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    Yep I had to dry a yearling off this year early due to looking like death warmed over. She had twins and was just one heck of a milker. Sometimes this does happen.
     
  5. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Daniel.....obviously, some doe's do milk theirselves thin as you can see in the replies already. But, when I see this in the situation that you stated above (with the rest not thin), then I get some concerned she may always be a "hard keeper", and why did she go down this way, when none of the rest in the herd with the same management and probably bloodlines didn't. I have to wonder if this FF has gut wall scars caused by cocci/worms, and that she is unable to absorb feed properly.

    So......since this doe is at a high end herd......they should be able to tell me a couple things without thinking too long. How long has she been fresh ?....How much milk was she producing ?...how much feed was she eating ?

    I'm not saying that there is a thing wrong with this young doe......but she is for sale for a reason.....and as you describe the rest of the herd (not thin).....she stands out like a sore thumb.

    As I've read some of your other post about getting a foundation doe to build a herd on, and your willing to pay good money for one.......then I say get one that not only produces well, is structurally correct.....but one that you're not ashamed to show when folks come by to take a look at your goats.

    Let's face it....looks sells. So when folks come here to look at goats to buy, then I kinda take my old "pile of bones" off to a side pen where they aren't so visible. To make my point...go to all these folks web sites and take a look......How many pics do you see of doe's that are in a milked down condition ? Looking at a pile of bones hurts your sells most of the time.

    Whim




    Whim
     
  6. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    Yes they can, I have one in particular. I love her and appreciate the milk that she makes and the beautiful babies she has given us year after year but I dont think I would go out and BUY one such doe. (Ours was born here on the property)
     
  7. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    A doe can milk all her weigh off. However, I would question that this time of year unless she is recently fresh.

    As Whim said, she is being sold for a reason and since she doesn't look to be in the same condition as the rest of their herd... well, you decide.

    I agree LeeAnne, I wouldn't buy a doe that I had to struggle to keep weight on either.

    Sara
     
  8. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    It's common with some breeds, I have had to dry up ff saanens early a time or two, they seem to bounce back and Not have the problem the following years. I have dried them off as early as 3-4 months fresh. My purpose in freshening them is to check those udders, and make culls not to milk them into the ground.
    I don't know about Lamancha's though. Since I finally have my herd up in numbers, there's a good chance I'll leave my 2009 babies unbred, till 2010.

    So my question to you is, do they have any other first fresheners in the herd at all at this time. Better yet a related one, are they plump? Do they put out much Less milk? Can you get references on this herd owner? Trust your instincts, better to pass on her than be sorry you bought her.
    With my Nubies they seem to put out so much Less milk the first year, then as 3 year olds they are milking fools, my saanens hit the ground Milking so they tend to loose the weight.
     
  9. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Sherrie makes another point that I was thinking of also. Big difference usually between that FF and the 2nd freshening udder. I'm not sure that I would want to start my "line" with a FF for this reason. I really don't think you can do a lot of long range judging on a udder/teats until it has been freshened at least a couple of times.


    JMO, Whim
     
  10. Halo-M Nubians

    Halo-M Nubians New Member

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    I think it would depend on how much they want for her and if you are willing to take a gamble with such good lines behind her. I have a doe now that was a very hard keeper for the first 3 years. Also also small and slow to mature..I wanted her based on bloodlines and milk production and finally she was offered to me last year. This year she appraised 91 VEEE and is milking great. NO weight issues this time around and she grew into a large doe. She Freshened in May and is verging on chubby now. Her freshening date might make a big difference too. I had some scary-skinny yearlings this spring..now 6 months fresh they are all looking good-and milking well.
     
  11. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    WOW this is some great feedback. I spent quite a bit of time last night studying the does of this herd and following the advice I have received, I have decided to go a different route. It was a good looking doeling out of a first rate, very respectable herd, and she was the only one who looked really thin, she was not a bag of bones but she did not produce huge amounts of milk. projected 1600# as a first freshener.

    Thanks for your advice in this important decision