Milk Question in various breeds

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by new2goats, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. new2goats

    new2goats Guest

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    Okay..I have heard all things under the sun on the different dairy breeds as far as the type, amount and quality of milk produced. I know all things have to be considered such as diet, bloodlines, the care given ect. ect but I was curious about a few things.

    I always hear people say "Nigerians have a higher butterfat content to their milk"

    So in general, what can be said for the other breeds and their milk?

    Nubians?

    Alpines?

    Lamancas?

    Mini Lamanchas?

    Toggenburg?

    ect..ect....Just curious as to the different milk qualities that make some folks choose one breed over another...hope that makes sense :?
     
  2. mill-valley

    mill-valley New Member

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    Nubians are also higher butterfat. Alpines, Saanens, and Toggs are lower, depends very much on the individual and diet though.
     

  3. hamilton40

    hamilton40 New Member

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    Nubians give a lot more milk than a Nigirian but not as much in general than the other dairy breeds. It is more choice then anything else I think. I have had a lot of different breeds and I just prefure the Nubians. They are normaly a little louder then most but to me they just seem to be more friendly. Mine always bahs at me and they always come to great me when I go out. It is just a choice.
    Clay
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    List the order of butterfat percentage from highest to lowest, according to breed.
    Nigerian Dwarf 6.5%
    Nubian 4.8%
    LaMancha 3.9 %
    Sable 3.5%
    Oberhasli 3.4%
    Sannen 3.3%
    Alpine 3.3%
    Toggenburg 3.3%

    Now if you mix a LaMancha with a ND you get a nice mixture with a higher butterfat. I don't have to use cream when making ice cream
     
  5. Rambar Ranch

    Rambar Ranch New Member

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    I believe there is a direct correlation to the volume of milk produced to the quantity of items in the milk, i.e. protein, butterfat. The more milk produced the lower percentage of butterfat.
     
  6. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    OH I don't know because the LaMancha has a higher butterfat content than the Togg but I think they also milk more on average too.
     
  7. homeacremom

    homeacremom New Member

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    In my opinion management also makes a difference in butterfat and general flavor. For example,free choice alfalfa seemed to increase the creaminess in our milk. No tests, just general observation.
     
  8. new2goats

    new2goats Guest

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    Interesting...thanks for your opinions.

    I know several factors are involved in this but I just wanted the generalization y'all gave :)

    Now....another question.....are some milks better for certain purposes?

    Say for instance a milk with higher butter fat is best suited for making "X product" While milk with lower butterfat content is best suited for making "X product" (these products being cheese, yougurt, drinking milk ect. ect)

    Granted I know you can make great products from all the dairy breeds..just curious if higher butterfat/lower butterfat in the milks are best suited to particular products. (Like Sondra mentioned not having to add cream when she makes ice cream because of the high butterfat content)
     
  9. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    On the kinder goat associations website there are some milk tests results that show a really high percentage of fat and protein solids. From 5.3 to 7.9% I believe you can find information for many breeds from milk tests and dhia. Protein solids are also high for Nigerian Dwarfs, Kinders, mini nubians ect and when you make cheese you tend to get more cheese when you use their milk.

    I personally love any of the mini mixes. Any small cute and cuddly goats I like and will milk. As the trend for farms gets smaller so will our livestock, I think.

    Nigerian Dwarfs and Kinder milk makes a very thick and creamy kefir and yogurt. I also get a lot of cheese from their milk. We did have alpines for a while and the yogurt from them was much thinner.

    I like using the Kinder/Niggie milk in coffee and for shakes and ice cream. If you can try out the milks from different breeds then do so. You can see the difference for yourself then.

    ( Kinder's are a cross between Nubians and Pygmy's and have their own registry.)
     
  10. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Great answers but I am going to answer this question differently......In a house milk situation....you can't tell the difference in butter fat in the milk from taste or feel. Nubian milk looks thicker than Alpine milk, but in a head to head taste test, you can not tell the difference. Alpine milk has more protein in it, so you yeild more cheese...butterfat has nothing to do with cheese volume.

    Our mini Manchas have more body to their milk and you can feel this and see this on the glass when you drink their milk.

    What do all the testing and such mean to you or I who don't DHIR test? Really nothing. The same Nubian at my house will milk less at yours. The same alpine in another herd will have more butterfat than the other. So much of milk volume, solids, protein is from management.

    If I was running a dairy again I would do exactly what I did before, milk LaMancha crosses, crossed with the high production Saanen and Alpine dairy goats.

    If I was starting in goats.....I would take into consideration the amount of milk reported to me by the bloodlines I am purchasing, but I would not pick a breed based on a percentage point higher or lower of butterfat. You have to breed what you love.

    And even though there are does who milk 16 pounds on test, can you imagine the skill in management it takes to keep her alive and milking that much? Sorry not for me. Give me a doe who will milk 12 pounds at peak, go down to 10 pounds then down to 8 when August hits and milk that same 8 pounds until 50 days bred....I would snap her up. Vicki
     
  11. chewie

    chewie New Member

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    me too--where is she???!!

    very interesting vicki, i was wondering much of the same--if a person could tell the diff. in various animals' milk.

    what about the lamancha's did you like so much? was it the milk or something else about the animals? anything you have to say about how you did your dairy, i would find very interesting. i worked on several holstein farms and like to hear about other dairy places, esp now that i'm into goats.
     
  12. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    We have noticed a difference in taste from Saanen to Saanen. One line in particular is very sweet (not bad on Protein and Butterfat, Top Ten in Protein, with 3800 lbs. of milk on Titania). And with 3800 lbs. of milk, Titania just missed being Top Ten in milk as well....

    For myself, I like a doe that hits near that 16 lb./day mark for a month or two, that drops to 12-14 lbs/day and finally hits 10 lbs/day at 305 days fresh. And Titania, WinCharmer, Peaches, Victoria and Anika make it look easy. They gallop up onto the milk stand, munch their hay and grain, drink a bunch of water, and lay in the shade of a large tamarack, chewing their cud. Good management, yes. Hot house flowers, no way. The other girls more closely fit Vicki's ideal...Hopefully their daughters will be a bit more productive. (That's what we want...)

    My children feed, water, milk, and trim the feet. No special feeds - just good alfalfa, minerals, whole grains. We do keep an eye on a heavily producing doe, but don't we all keep an eye on our girls? I just appreciate that my girls can feed their own kids and 2 or 3 more besides. They love to milk and are so generous.

    Maybe we are lucky, but no mastitis, no hypocalcemia, rarely any illness (I'd better not jinx us now!). We have been privileged to have some of the best genetics in the country, so perhaps that has something to do with it. They handle sub-zero temperatures, weird Spring weather (70 degrees at noon to snowing by 3:00PM), help train the young Pyrenees :), and never miss a beat.

    And yes, we enjoy this breed. We like the elegance and purity of the white girls in the pasture. No they don't all look alike, you just have to get to know them!

    I enjoy this forum because everyone loves the goats they are breeding while still appreciating a fine animal/herd in another breed. Personally, I think that good genetics combined with good management and a good eye toward breeding is what make a successful and satisfying herd. JMO.

    Camille
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Chris, LaManchas and the hybrid vigor of the first cross are spectacular milkers in our heat. They also as a whole had alot less issues with fighting than any of the other breeds we had (we never had obies, Texas obies are pathetic little creatures :) Biggy with noise, having 85 Nubians would have drove a person insane :) Lamanchas milk, they milk today, tommorrow, and forever, as a whole even animals that were in less than wonderful conditions when we brokered them to the farm, had utility udders free of most problems, very few bologna teats or teats to the dewclaw. Bred to a good buck you could instantly have daughters with VG udders.

    Now to be fair to some of the other breeds, other than a few LaMancha Toggs, we couldn't sell Togg milk because our buyer believed the myth that all Togg's milk tasted strong...and we didn't have Saanens because of the heat and cancer issue in our weather. We had a few Saanen/Lamancha crosses that were spectacular milkers and the most docile of does who although docile with my children who milked them took nothing off the other does. OK...I am bored :) so I tend to go on and on :) Vicki
     
  14. chewie

    chewie New Member

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    you can go on all you want vicki! i love when you do! i'm here to learn all i can.

    oh wow, you gals are making me soooo envious! i am so embarassed at my slacking does! but i cannot go out spending hundreds...no, thousands!....on goats. wish i could, as i know keeping a poor producer costs the same, acutally more, than a good producer. i don't even know how to go about upgrading--better does, or buy a fantastic buck? oh, i hope i'm not hijacking, sorry if i did.
     
  15. Bilrite Farms

    Bilrite Farms Guest

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    Another nice combo is to have a few Alpines and NDs... you get the best of both, good volume with nice components. The milk combined is very nice and makes wonderful cheese. So basically pick the breed you like and go from there.

    Trisha
     
  16. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    The more Vicki and Sara talk about Lamanchas and Mini Mancha's the more I want one. Sigh.....
     
  17. mill-valley

    mill-valley New Member

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    Chris...the most economical way for most people to improve is through the buck. You get many more kids out of a good buck than a good doe...therefore if he's throwing productive daughters you will get your money's worth. Not to say that a good doe isn't worth her weight in gold...but for "upgrading" purposes it's easier to use a really good buck. He's 1/2 the herd.
     
  18. Agape Oaks

    Agape Oaks Guest

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    They are a lot of fun & fit in well with the nigerians
     
  19. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Chewy so much of it is also management. In a small herd you can keep the quality high, and actually get more milk than a larger herd who has to pinch pennies to feed them.

    But improvement of genetics always comes from spectacular bucks. Spectacular for you may not be what it is for me...could be more meat, or more milk...I want milk but I don't want crazy amounts :) it's too hard on the girls in our heat. When I bought Nic from Sara, I really had no idea the award winning milker Santa Cruz was...I loved her, did note she had a milkstar, and she was the perfect bloodline I wanted to add and was bred to a near perfect buck for me (it really was meant to be)....it wasn't until later that I realised she was a top 10 doe in milk.

    The hardest thing for you is the multiple breeds you are dealing with, it's hard to divey out th money to do credit to that many breeds. Vicki
     
  20. chewie

    chewie New Member

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    i am starting to think the ober isn't the way for me. i rather like both my saanan's and nub.s and am looking forward to that cross. now i will start looking into upgrading in the buck. having raised cattle and horses, i fully understand how he is so important.

    the ober is the one that got rave reviews from that dairy judge, but she's so small, she seems most troubled by the heat, and yeah, now try to get her bred! the breeder she came from (only one for a long ways!)assured me she'd help get me a buck when time came, but i am still fighting to get my papers--from march!! so i know getting her to fork over a buck won't be worth my time. sadly she will be bred to my nub., as that is all i have. i have been asked for milkers and i think when i have others in milk, i'll be letting her go.

    have also decided i dont' give a hoot about showing! i didn't like messing with it, and it was only a little 4H show! so i won't be looking for beauty queens, only milk machines! when just starting, its hard for a person to know where they're going to put the most of their efforts. now i know. (this is not saying i wont' also be looking for those with good dairy character)

    i really appreciate how much you ppl are sharing with me--i have no one else to turn to, as the other 'goat ppl' in my area have a few 'nannies and billies' and no regard for having good quality animals, and dont' know even as much as i do!