Menengial worm

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by cindy, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. cindy

    cindy Member

    241
    0
    16
    Hi! We have a llama and a goat being treated for meningeal worm. I know that llamas are susceptible to that dang parasite, but it is rare for goats to get it. Knowing that we have a goat with meningeal worm, we will be treating everyone with injectable ivermectin. What has been your experience with treating pregnant does? Should we wait a certain number of days after breeding? Thanks for your opinions!
    Cindy

    PS: We are getting ag tags to get rid of some deer!!
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    4
    0
    The problem would be that the dose of IVermectin give subq to treat menengial worm agressively to get back to 100% rather than the less than good results seen on the web, is not something I would give profilactically to my does each month, or every 2 weeks...even Goat Medicine agrees that it is useless profilactically.

    Your best bet is to get LGD that will kill or run off deer, that is how I dealt with it. I loved the deer when we first got here, and forbid the dogs to chase them, after one bout with menengial worm (back before the internet or Goat Medicine) our next dogs were actually rewarded for running them off.

    Because it can also come in on hay, also be careful about where you purchase your grass hay from.

    You really don't want to be using anything the implantation period, about 11 days of the pregnancy, better is to push it to 50... Vicki
     

  3. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

    1,837
    0
    0
    Hmmm...I guess it's more prevelant in the south, maybe? My buck was treated and recovered back to breeding useage but not 100% in one rear leg. Personally know two Boer bucks that have had problems and have *heard* of several others.
    Kaye
     
  4. Haglerfarm

    Haglerfarm New Member

    216
    0
    0
    Yes, I have had two cases of it. One was my buck, Knight when he was young. And, yes, he does limp slightly on one side on a hind leg ever since. But, otherwise he is fine. I did however lose another yearling wether to what the vet thinks was meningeal worm. At first we thought it might be listeria. He went down in his hind legs, but otherwise was fine. We were hoping that after worming and treatment that maybe he would come back. But, he didn't I worked with him a month, he was never able to use his hind legs, it had caused permanent damage. He ate and felt fine and I would hold him up and he would move around. I finally put him down. So I really try to worm them well now. Have not had anymore problems.
    We are absolutely covered up in deer here. My dogs keep most of them run off now.
    Les
     
  5. cindy

    cindy Member

    241
    0
    16
    My llamas are pretty good at keeping the deer off the pasture, but we have a lot of them. The goat is doing OK, she has a limp in her rear leg, but I'm hoping she comes back. My llama is being boarded at the vet because he cannot get to a standing position on his own. She has a hoist and can get him on his feet~then he'll stand. It hit him really hard and fast! I never thought about them being in the hay! I try to keep them all wormed, but I don't want to overuse wormer. I'm getting better at doing fecals and have a vet close by that does them for us too. Ivermectin is the wormer to use for menengial worm and menengial worm won't show up in fecals. I don't want to give it to the goats each month, just this one time to kill any menengial worms that they may already have. I'll wait ~50 days after breeding...thanks Vicki
    Cindy
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    4
    0
    If you read up on it it doesn't work that way. They ingest it all the time, but it takes a break in your goats immunity for the adult 'worm' to break the blood brain barrier. It then travels down in the fluid of the spinal cord and sets up housekeeping, sending out larvae to finish the cycle. This setting up housekeeping puts pressure on the spinal cord, and is why you get the paralysis from that point back. Why you want to use the Ivermectin to kill the 'worm' but also the larve before it matures and migrats out of the body, but if you don't use Dex to control the swelling they will not get movement back fast enough before damage is done. The larvae actually migrate out through the skin, leaving lesions that the goats then self mutilate, causing wicked bloody lines, as if they are digging after the tunneling larvae. Banamine will control the self mutilation. We also used Naxcel because a doe down in Texas is going to get pneumonia, and also cocci meds because it is so opportunistic here along with worms. And acceptable level of both in a healthy goat does nothing, in that same goat down it will kill her from anemia.

    In all instances with folks I have helped or with my Amber, the faster you started on the whole regime the better the end result was. Using other wormers, not enough, or the two or five days of safeguard, or not using a steroid, left most either put down in the end, or too weak to breed or be bred or carry kids (without extreme measures I won't do).

    Usually you can pinpoint the break in the immunity, a previous illness, just being moved, a move to a new pen. Vicki
     
  7. Ashley

    Ashley Active Member

    3,681
    0
    36
    I did not realize that Vicki, I thought it was just exposure that was needed, and you were pretty much guaranteed to have a problem. Interesting.
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    4
    0
    No or otherwise you would have herd wide outbreaks and other than the one interent site, it usually hits one goat who is stressed. (which could be as simple as a heavy milker or nutritional stress also). Vicki
     
  9. ChristinaF.

    ChristinaF. Guest

    166
    0
    0
    Oh my goodness! I never heard of this kind of worm. Sara, do we have these in Minnesota? :/

    Christina
     
  10. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    4
    0
    Do you have white tail deer? Vicki
     
  11. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Yes, since we have a large population of White Tail Deer it can be an issue.

    Sara
     
  12. cindy

    cindy Member

    241
    0
    16
    Thanks for all the info Vicki. I guess I never thought about a break in immunity or other stressors. We recently built a new barn and moved everyone in at the end of October...She got sick shortly after that. I know with llamas, it will take 45-60 days for them to show any signs of menengial worm. Any idea how long it takes for goats??

    BTW, 5 white tail deer have been "removed" from our property!!! :crazy
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    4
    0
    Sorry I have no idea. I can't see how it can be testable, since nothing shows up in fecal or blood. To me it's almost as if they sit in wait for a stressor to allow them to move in the goats body....like adult worms in the gut sit and wait for warm weather to start sucking blood and laying eggs when the weather warms up, when they have been arrested in the goats system all spring. They are just a whole lot smarter than we know.

    Perhaps what is meant with the llamas is from the time they are ingested, it is this long they can remain in the system? Because it doesn't make any sense that it would take that long for them to mature and lay eggs 45 to 60 days since it's not the lifecycle?? I honestly don't know. Vicki
     
  14. cybercat

    cybercat New Member

    35
    0
    0
    Gads this is scary. I think I am headed for real trouble with this one. We have a herd of 10 deer that live around us. Question would bringing in goats be possible if the stress of traveling here and being in a new home would make them come down with these worms? I know the place I would be getting them from would be clean but not here. Dog is chasing them off but I know they sleep in our woods. I am planning them be able to browse our land. Is there anything I can do for the goats to help them fight these worms? Or is even getting goats for us not an option if we have deer living here?
     
  15. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    4
    0
    We have white tail deer everywhere. Our dogs do a really good job of chasing them off and the hunters also, but we do now and then have them on our land. In 22 years here I have had one case. It isn't the common disease this thread may make you think. Vicki
     
  16. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

    1,837
    0
    0
    Here is an interesting article concerning menegial worm in llamas. Since most of the research being done recently is on llamas, I couldn't find any research pertaining explicitly to caprines. Lots of speculation, comparisons, but no true research done on caprines. Maybe I just didn't look far enough back.??
    http://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/2008/Spring/lama.htm

    I did have a diagnosis done at OSU (Oklahoma State) on a goat with doses and test results...but it was lost when computer crashed.
    Kaye
     
  17. We have a good number of white tail deer on our farm. We've never had a case of menengial in our herd, on our farm. We've had goats here for ten years.
    However, my aunt and uncle, who live less than a 1/4 mile from the edge of our property as the crow flies, ended up with 3 of their 4 coming yearling doelings going down with deer worm. They have larger herds on their property and the goats were being penned with cattle panels in areas where the deer had slept the night before. This year, no issues with the herd. They also free ranged the goats rather than penning them.
    Our herd is penned in an area not frequented by deer except during hunting season and even then, the deer do not go in their pens. Our goats wander and browse 80 acres of land so they are not heavily concentrating on any one area either.
    It was my first experience with deer worm and we pulled all three through with the help from people here. One even retained her pregnancy and went on to deliver her twin bucklings just fine, even with the heavy doses of Dex.
     
  18. cybercat

    cybercat New Member

    35
    0
    0
    Thanks Kaye for the link. We might not have such a big problem here after all. That makes me feel better.