medicated feed questions

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by stoneyheightsfarm, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

    1,778
    0
    0
    Hi all,

    As I've been doing more research into this coccidia stuff, I've come across a few things and I'd like your input. I switched to a medicated feed with decoquinate, but read that it works much like amprolium in that it mimics thiamine. My understanding is that if you then supplement with thiamine, you've made the medication ineffective b/c while some of the coccidia may take the medicine and not be able to move from one life cycle to another, some will get the real thiamine and go about their dirty business as usual. This medicated feed has additional thiamine to help prevent goat polio associated with the decoquinate. Sounds like this is defeating the purpose?

    Also, looking at monensin and considering a switch. I wouldn't switch from one to another directly, don't worry! But all I can find on it is from meat goat producers, beef cattle producers, and dairy cattle producers, but not dairy goats... Apparently, it does not affect the meat of both cows and goats, and does not affect the milk of dairy cows. Dairy goats have yet to be tested, and because of that it is currently not recommended for diary goats. I know of one dairy goat breeder who uses feed w/rumensin, but have yet to hear back from her about her experience w/the milk. I don't have horses, so a rumensin based feed would not be an issue. I do have chickens, and have heard different things on that from two different sources. One (a small DG breeder out west) said it was bad for chickens, but a large chicken producer in our area said it is one of the best for chickens, but he doesn't use it b/c he also deals with horses.

    So, I suppose I'm wondering what y'all think of a rumensin/monensin based feed for dairy goats, particularly when they are in milk. Are there any studies out there about it that you could direct me toward? Seems like it stays within the digestive tract, working on coccidia, and never makes its way to the meat or the milk, but I want to be sure.
     
  2. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    My question is, why would you feed a medicated feed to lactating does?

    I only use medicated feed for kids, never milkers.

    Sara
     

  3. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    1
    0
    right and I never use a rumensin/monensin based feed because of the conflict with using demethox or other cocci meds. so when I use medicated feed I make sure it doesn't have rumensin in it.
    For my lactaing does they get grains not a pelleted premix feed.
     
  4. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

    1,778
    0
    0
    Ah, I didn't realize there would be a conflict with di-methox. Has anyone had experience with using rumensin and needing to use di-methox? (rumensin not doing the trick?) Please explain more on this to me. What kind of conflict are we looking at drug wise, and what management practices would bring this about? What if you separated kids, gave them dimethox in bottles, and a non-medicated grain, still giving feed w/rumensin to the dams?

    I suppose I'm trying to research all my options where coccidia prevention and treatment are concerned. I had a foolish notion that I wouldn't have to worry about it, and I'm finding out that I was very wrong. I have very very little practical experience, so am trying to weigh out all the stuff I'm reading. I'm not excited about thiamine imitation type drugs like decoquinate or corid/amprolium just b/c it seems as though they prevent the coccidia from progressing enough in their life cycle to lay oocysts, but don't eradicate them entirely. Also, many folks in our area say that it is losing its effectiveness here. Sulfa drugs seem to be a good way to treat problems, and I hope my next round of those will do the trick. I don't like the idea of having to routinely give antibiotics, though. That may be an unrealistic expectation in this business if I want to keep healthy goats unless I am prepared to cross fence our property into several pastures/wooded lots and rotate the goats through them, leaving one sit for up to 6 months before returning to it--then how would this affect stress levels?

    What I'm reading concerning rumensin seems very promising as far as treatment, prevention, and how it works in the body. (eradicating all stages of a coccidian life cycle, not affecting meat or milk b/c it stays in the digestive system of those animals studied) I hope that I don't have to treat lactating does, but I want to be prepared just in case.
     
  5. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

    1,778
    0
    0
    Maybe I'm over-researching this stuff. Think I need to go re-read some Goat 101 stuff, stick with this feed, and treat as needed. I thought this was going to be a whole lot easier!
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    4
    0
    You have to understand that for any feed through to work the goat has to be consuming enough of it. At 3 weeks old when I have to use prevention for the first time a kid would not be consuming enough of any feed through pellet, mine is dosed at 1 pound per 30 to 50 pounds of body wieght no weigh a 3 week old is eating the 1/2 pound they would need daily to have their bloodlevel of the drug high enough. So I use Corid.

    Also understand that the whole Corid depeleting the body of thiamin is really out there. It's a huge leap from Corid/Amprolium blocks the cocci occyts ability to move from the less harmful lifecycle to the more harmful lifecycle by blocking IT"S ability to use Thiamin. Not take all the thiamin out of the goats body so there is none for the cocci.

    Now...anything given orally to a dibilitated goat is going to reak havoc on the rumen and since the only Thiamin/B1 made in the goat is in a healthy rumen you can see that it could cause problems...but so can wormers, electrolytes which contain propolyn glycol like Nutra drench. That huge leap they take is without an ounce of scientific data.

    I will one day move the kids I am keeping to rumensin, the reason is I have used Lasalocid/bovatec and now deccoquinate for so long that I will move to rumensin and then back to Lasalocid. Now I am not a huge fan of rumensin because unlike Corid and deccoq that keeps some of the lifecycles alive in the goat so you see some cocci in fecal...these two drugs kill them all. On a rumensin pellet you would see no cocci on fecal unless the kid is not consuming as much as they need. This leaves you with kids not getting any immuinty from this low levels of unharmful cocci in their system.

    OK...I do go on don't I ;) Vicki
     
  7. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

    1,778
    0
    0
    This helps, thank you! I mentioned my concerns about the decoquinate and supplemental thiamin to my feed man. He told me that the internet is great, but to be careful. If I have a broken ankle, go to a doctor. If I have a feed question, go to him. :D He didn't go into the detail like you did, so that really helps me understand and sets me much more at ease. Thanks!
     
  8. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

    1,466
    0
    36
    go to your FEED man about what to raise goats on. :rofl :rofl Does your feed man raise goats? :biggrin