Low Buck Libido and a rant

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by DostThouHaveMilk, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. This really has been the breeding season from Hades for me. I've lost two young bucks (one Boer and Alazne). My younger 75% Boer was traumatized by an older and would not breed his does for a month. He has now bred at two and third is in heat today. Which means he can go over to my aunt and uncle's for breeding...only two weeks behind schedule. Achilles had an abscess pop up behind his front leg. Tested negative for CL, of course. We don't have abscesses and he had never left the farm and came from an incredibly clean and tested herd. That knocked him out for January kids, since he was in quarantine after I had the vet lance it and we waited for results. I took William over to my boss' to breed her does she purchased from us and her cow herd attempted to kill him the next day. He'd be dead if she hadn't heard them bellowing. As it is he is limping and not capable of breeding the does that have cycled since. The Boer buck I kept back from December is a shrimp and not impressive, so I doubt he'd breed anything even if I wanted him to. My buck all ended up with lice (except Alazne and Silverado, the Alpine). Since we so rarely see lice I didn't catch it early and it set them back considerably. My two Nubian bucks, though thin and still slightly pale, are breeding, if the does would just cycle for them. My April Alpine buck kid is overly aggressive towards his does and is using his horns to try and tear the building apart.

    My fullblood yearling Boer buck, however, is not breeding. His eyelids are darker than theirs, but he has absolutely little interest in breeding. He didn't lose as much weight either. He'll mount, but will not follow through. I have to guide him to does standing at the fence flagging and he'll make two or three pathetic attempts and then wanders off to go and eat some more hay. :tearhair
    He was supposed to go over to the school the beginning of November to breed the six does they purchased from us, but I do not want to send him until I'm sure he is at least making contact. He still has at least a dozen does here that need to be bred as well. He has kids on the ground at my aunt and uncles and kids on the ground here as well. He settled does for January, but has not settled anything as far as I can tell since the beginning of October (nobody was being bred in September). He has a marking harness on, so I know he has mounted does and I've seen every doe he has mounted and he has not followed through except maybe once on Peach Blossom two weeks ago.

    I'm about ready to give up on goats. I lasted longer than a lot, but I just can't handle all of this. They've been in my care for 7 years. I've lost four goats this year despite aggressive treatment and to unknown causes. One wether hung himself in the feeder. Two does to something different than the two bucks. I have my suspicions on them. Two kids to being smothered in January. A doe in March (Veruca) to a very bad kidding. I have to keep reminding myself...that's eight out of over a hundred goats. Which is not counting kids lost in the first week of life (five, three FTDs).

    It is so frustrating because these people that don't have near as much knowledge in their minds as I do have few to no problems and I can't even keep my goats healthy and reproducing. I can save other people's goats, but can't seem to save my own all the time.

    Just a huge vent, I guess. Maybe they're is right, maybe I'm not cut out to care for animals.


    Anyways, how can I increase my buck's libido? I'm already seeing May kids dancing in the back of my mind and I am not happy. He needs to go over to the school this week or next.
    I wormed him with Cydectin the beginning of March He was dusted with delousing powder (which killed off the lice). He's had three shots of pig iron over the past week. Eyes are still slightly pale.
    At this stage I am considering hitting him with Ivermect Plus to see if it's something that Cydectin won't get.
    He is wearing head gear, a stick duct taped to his horns. He was spending 23 1/2 hours of every day with his head stuck in the hay feeder because his horns are at the length if he pushes hard enough he can get them in, but he could not get them out himself. He did that for the first two weeks he was in with the does.
    :help

    As dad pointed out, hundreds of dollars worth of bucks out there...and I'm still complaining about breeding. I started the breeding season with 11 bucks/bucklings. Admittedly one I never planned on using and he has since gone to the buyers farm where he was ready and raring to go. I'm down to 8 and still have does not bred.
     
  2. Bilrite Farms

    Bilrite Farms Guest

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    Have they been wormed since March? That sure was a long time ago. We usually will worm our bucks again before breeding season.

    Sorry to hear you are having such problems.

    Trisha
     

  3. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Are your goats getting enough copper? I've heard of goats having reproductive problems if their copper level is low. Kathie
     
  4. We also worm our bucks/does before breeding season.
     
  5. Sorry, I had March in mind because those would be the due dates. He was wormed the beginning of October. About a week before I put the bucks with the does.
    The mature goats were all copper bolused in August, I think it was. It was later than I had hoped.
    The bucks had been wormed with Ivermect prior because I was trying to combat the lice at that point. I finally got some dust and that took care of it. I assumed the Cydectin would help his anemic state since they hadn't been hit with that since last early Spring.
    I wormed the bucks and does before breeding season.
    The lice was the bigget issue and now it is under control. Now I have to fiure out how to get him back to breeding.
     
  6. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    Roseanna,
    We too feel your pain as just when you think that nothing else could possibly get worse it does. It seems that the longer you have goats the more problems you will see. By being experienced you are able to catch the simple things quickly but there are tougher problems that crop up that you just can't fix easily. Somedays I am ready to just dig a hole and push the problem ones in but then you get a sucess and you go again.
    Hang in there!
    Mary
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    BoSE also that buck power that Kaye and Vicki talk abt think it is from Caprine Supply but won't swear to it.
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Bummer...sorry.

    It should get much eaiser as your herd settles in. Make sure others who use your bucks handle them well, not putting them out with calves that can hurt them, or have dogs, or horses, or let them get their own bucks.

    IF you have too many goats that you are letting things get ahead of you...the lice/anemia etc...than cull down to just your best. You simply have to get out with the goats everyday, check a few eyelids as you walk through the group petting the goats. I always pet in a specific way, down the neck (looking for lumps), down the back (over the ribs feeling for good flesh), down the rump (feeling for strength as I push down), looking for problems. I know there are those who have others do chores, spouse's or kids, I just think there is no better prevention of nearly all problems by having us, out there with the goats each day. Watch the boys pee, get problems that can become dangerous fixed as fast as we can...check weight, you don't have to wait for rut to know that a buck is in too poor of shape to be used that year.

    If he is anemic enough not to show good eye color than there isn't going to be a quick fix for his libido. Good food, good hay, delouse again in 21 days, fecal to make sure he was only amenic from the lice, build his blood supply, bo-se every week if you can, and perhaps he will be able to breed by January.

    Don't know if you have ever been anemic but the lack of energy it causes is the real problem here, simply due to the lack of blood volume. Vicki
     
  9. The herd is too big. I can't seem to sell the bred does. Nobody in this area is buying right now. If I send them through the sale barn now, I'll be lucky to get $40 a head for the mature does. They'll most likely be shipped East for slaughter. I can get more in the Spring with kids on them...it's just getting to the Spring and having them deliver kids.

    William, along with two other bucks and wether, spent a good portion of last summer with those same cows that tried to kill him. Her doe herd runs with those cows and it hasn't been an issue. William made a mistake though. He tried to woo (tongue wag up the side of the face with a few snorts and a leg stomp or two) the 16 month old Jersey/Norwegian Red bull, and the bull's foster mom (Jersey cow) took exception to it and started chasing him.
    If he had not done that, I think all would have been fine. But he did, unfortuantely. I was worried and told her to keep a close eye on everything and let me know if anything happened. She got him away and out of harm's reach and then called me. He is still there, but penned away from the cow herd and safe now. The does are ticked because they are penned with him and they prefer the freedom to roam and browse.

    I only lease to four herds. Three of them only have goats they purchased from me. Two of those herds are made up of CAE prevention raised does and any kids they've had. The fourth is NuPine on here, a 4-Her, whose herd I've checked out.

    I was doing pretty well getting out with the goats everyday, but I was not getting in with the bucks at that point and feeling them, like I had been doing. It's better now that they are in dry lots for the winter.

    My SAD is kicking in and, honestly, the BiPolar is really bad right now. I'm overwhelmed and feeling like I just can't do it. I can get help from family if I ask for it, but family has their own issues and things to do. I'm gonna get some help here this week I think and go through each pen and check eyelids. Nibbles is pale and needs attention.

    I've been anemic before...about once a month actually...sigh...I know how hard it is to just do anything at all.
    His color is coming back and I had hoped it would help. He was the healthiest of the older boys and is the one incapable of breeding at this point.
    I'll keep on doing what I am doing in rebuilding him. And talk to the school to see where they stand. For them, timing is important if the students are to have any experience in the whole thing.

    Thanks, everyone. It's just been really hard and losing a perfectly healthy buck kid in less than a weeks time despite my best efforts has just been one of those final straw moments.
     
  10. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Sorry for your losses. It is very tough when it all happens in a row like that.

    Do you think you could sell some of the does at the market? It would sure help ease up on your work load, and in the long run may be more profitable to do so (rather than drowning come Spring and losing kids due to nutrition/management issues, especially if you are over-crowded.)

    With 100 goats, your losses aren't all that bad but perhaps this is a signal to do something now. Maybe you could just go through and pick your bottom 10 goats and take them to the sale. I really do mean this as encouragement - so many long-standing breeders have said that being forced to cut back/cull, due to a variety of circumstances, is one of the best things that ever happened to them and their animals. More time and space and resources for the animals left, and instead of feeling overwhelmed all of the time, they actually had time to enjoy the goats.

    Hopefully your buck will start to gain ground now. Camille
     
  11. coso

    coso Guest

    So sorry for your losses. I agree with Camille though. With a hundred goats everything gets complicated. Most commercial dairies would just take the types of losses you are talking about and not worry about them. Worm loads become astronomical. Manure handling becomes a big problem, penning becomes a problem. Especially with that many bucks. Sometimes you have to take care of yourself first and that may mean selling down to a level you feel comfortable with again.
     
  12. 27 of the over 100 head are wethers with another five wethers born in July/August. The prices for meat wethers are down right now as well, and since that is the biggest place we bring back any money, it would be shooting ourselves in the foot to ship them now. More than half of those will go next month when the prices should come back up some. Some need to be held over a little bit longer.
    I plan on selling a good number of does in milk this next Spring. I have a foot in the door of the local Amish community so I may be able to sell them more easily.
    I shouldn't lose near as many this year with kidding, because ideally, I won't be sick for the entire month of January. We had 20+ does kid in January and I was so sick I could barely drag myself out of bed for most of it. I did, because it was my responsibility. But we lost kids because of it. Does kidding out in the cold. Dad is down there for a good 20 hours of every day, but those four hours are enough to lose goats...besides he's caring for the cow herd during those hours. It's a wonder I was there for any births, but he was good about checking and calling, and catching kids as they arrived while I dragged myself out of bed and down to the barn to due the post kidding care of prevention kids and the does.
    I only have about 15-20 settled for January. Most of them meat does. Maybe going back to a focus on Spring kiddings, when the goats choose to be outside more, will be a better thing. We'll see.

    I know fewer does would be ideal, and I am going to work hard towards that. We are cramped for space at this point, and when you are embarassed to have people visit and see your goats and their pens, it's a sign something is seriously wrong.

    Writing it down definitely helps with perspective.

    It's also amazing what a good night's sleep can do to perspective.


    As far as the buck. Would some straight Thiamine help him? Or just some B-Com? I've pulled goats out of anemia multiple times now. One was someone else's doe. She ended up getting bred accidently less than two months after her second bout of bottle jaw and carried healthy twins to term. I've done it, I'm just used to working with does where the grain isn't as much of an issue.


    Thanks, you guys! I appreciate the support and suggestions.
     
  13. Amanda Lee

    Amanda Lee Member

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    Here is a hug ((( ))), you sound like you need that!

    Things will get better, and hopefully the market will too. Sorry no advice on what to give the goat. I am too new at this. Maybe Sara, Whim or Vickie can help you somemore.

    Hang in there and I hope you don't get that sick every again!
    Amanda Lee
     
  14. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    The price of meat goats (especially market wethers) has jumped considerably in the last month or so. Have you considered how much more you will get for your wethers in December rather than say in 2 weeks (before Thanksgiving)? How much are those Hoover vacuum cleaners sucking down right now? If you add what your extra inputs - feed/space/medication - are going to cost you for another month vs. the better prices in December, you still might want to consider shipping a good portion of those wethers out real soon.

    When you have to care for and medicate ill animals that is where your bottom line really gets hurt. Additionally, those does will be worth dramatically more money if you can kid them out and sell as does in milk in the Spring, rather than meat at the local market, so you are in essence buying time and space for those girls by shipping your market wethers sooner. Not to mention you won't get so run down/stressed out so that you are healthy come kidding time.

    BTW, I would go with supportive care for this guy. 4 ccs of fortified B-complex daily (sub Q), plus a small handful of chewable vitamin C every day, if he will eat it. Cut some browse like pine trees, to tempt his appetite and give him a greater variety of feed stuff. Bo-Se every 2 weeks. Probios or some live cell yeast sprinkled over his grain. Hard to know if these will help him, but can't hurt and in my experience the extras do help when we are helping a doe to recover from an illness.

    Hang in there. Camille
     
  15. Bella Star

    Bella Star New Member

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    With 100+ goats, you are overloaded ! :crazy
    I have 30+ goats,dogs,chickens,chicks and ducks and I spend hours and hours outside doing this and that ,my house is a mess,laundry piled high and I look horrible :down .... I like everything clean and it's just not anymore , You keep records and are always up on who breeds who and when they are all due .... I just cant imagine 100 plus all the other critters you have :nooo .... You need rest and a vacation :sigh