Long Labor

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Anita Martin, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    Hello,
    This is my FIRST year kidding. We had our first babies born yesterday. It did not go like I thought it should, and I would like some feedback on what I might do next time if it happens again. Delilah started early labor yesterday morning. I had to go trim some horses and when I got back it was obvious she was trying to kid. She was restless and pawing and her tail head was protrudding etc. She finally laid down and began pushing around 12pm, and I saw a bubble. However, she got back up and was restless for another hour and a half, meanwhile pushing out bubbles and leaking lots of fluid. I called my neighbor over and we sat with her for all that time. She was not having strong contractions and just could not seem to concentrate on the task at hand. Finally she started bearing down pretty seriously and after lots of pushing on her part and some help from my friend on our part, she had a healthy 9.5 pound baby boy. She continued her restless behavior and we felt she had another kid in there. This was around 2pm. It wasn't until 6:30 or 7pm that I went back out to check and she had finally passed the placenta and I could see feet on the next kid. He came out much easier than the first. But still, mom was restless. About two hours later she finally passed the second after birth.
    I did not have any drugs on hand. I had called my vet about getting bo-se shots and he was supposed to call me back, but never did. We do not have any large animal vets around here, (and this is farm country) except one for horses. Everyone else only does dogs and cats. My question is, how do I get some of the drugs needed for kidding such as bo-se, oxytocin, etc, if I need a prescription, but since none of the vets do large animals, they won't give me one? Or am I just asking wrong?
    I appreciate any and all advice anyone can give me : :help
    By the way, mom and the boys are just fine. I had planned on rearing them on bottles, but that didn't work. Mom would not lay down and finish having the other baby once the first one was born. She was enthusiastically licking him and and me and my friend, and much admiring her little one. I couldn't bear to seperate them after that. Both boys will probably be sold as wethered pets anyway since mama is not registered. Thanks again.
    Anita
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Calcium and more calcium and once you see bubbles go in and check. sounds to me like you needed CMPK as she didn't have the muscle strength to continue. Talk to a horse vet not a cat/dog vet. and if that doesn't work contact one of the mods here for more info privately. Make sure your doe is getting lots of alfalfa now as she may go into milk fever/hypocalcimia
     

  3. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    I agree with Sondra here........bubbles with no babies pretty quick means it's time to start checking on why the traffic jam all of a sudden.
    Calcium levels drastically effect muscles, and their ability to be used to optimal strength. A slight calcium deficiency can cause long or delays in kidding. A severe cal. deficiency can be identified by a doe that is shaky, stumbling, drunkenness acting, inability to push during labor.
    Keeping preggy doe's on a high calcium diet like alfalfa, will drastically reduced calcium problems. ......but when calcium deficiency occurs during labor, nothing will replace having injectable calcium shots on hand.

    It almost sounds like with this case, that you had a kid that was not lined up properly for going through the birth canal.....obviously, your doe was able to realign them on her own, and all turned out OK.

    JMO, Whim
     
  4. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    Thanks for the help. My doe does not seem symptomatic of a severe deficiency. They have had free choice alfalfa pellets for over a month now. She is resting now, but seems like there might be something amiss. She's breathing a little faster than normal, and her eyes are wide. Is there anything I can give her over-the-counter that might hopefully help keep this from turning into something more serious than it is already? I'll be checking back. Right now I am taking her out some warm, soaked beet pulp. She still has the pellets and hay and water. Thanks,
    Anita
     
  5. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    I was reading someone on this site a list of stuff I might need for kidding and I saw a "walmart" version of CMPK. I cannot find where I saw this. Can someone give me the details? I will be going to the store just as soon as I find out what I need to get. Thanks again.
    Anita
     
  6. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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  7. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    Thanks. I printed up the info. I'm checking to see if tractor supply has CMPK first, if not, I'll go to walmart. Got probios on the list also. Thought I had some of that, but, it was empty!
     
  8. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    If anyone thinks so something else, I'll be on the road and you can call me. Probably won't have service until I get to the store, but I can check my messages. A GREAT BIG THANKS!
    Anita
     
  9. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    Okay, a phone number would be nice right? It's 434-426-4049...and I'm off!
     
  10. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    """"They have had free choice alfalfa pellets for over a month now.""""" Anita.

    I know there will be lots of opinions here, but this is mine. I really believe in feeding Alfafa throughout the entire pregnancy. According to what I have researched, calcium levels come up very slow through the digestive system......so trying to dramatically increase calcium levels through the digestive system in the last few days of pregnancy is sometimes too late.
    Alfalfa has now become my daily primary feed year around, and grains, grass hay, and browse, have all become secondary here.
    These Gal's have pretty much sold me on this idea, as I have seen a big difference in the overall health and appearance of my goats in the last year. I just hope that I can continue to buy alfalfa in some form, that isn't eating my budjet up much more than it is now. :help2

    Whim
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Great answers already on the why this likely happened now the hind site.

    Logically if you were in the bed pushing for that many hours, what would your midwife or your doctor do? They would stick their hand up and rearrange kids and help bring them out. When you do choose to let nature take it's course you then must accept that kids die, does die. You were very lucky the kids are in good shape let alone that she is not weak from this prolonged kidding.

    After 4 or 5 minutes of pushing a FF should have real progress, but I still have my hand in there at least a couple of times to make sure there is a perfect presentation. In older girls, shoot 4 or 5 really good pushes gives you bubbles you can strip and make sure kids are presented, then if you don't have your towels right there that first kid is on the barn floor in about 5 or 6 more pushes. Rest, clean up the kid and she should be pushing the next kids out in 5 to 15 minutes. We just had a really good thread on this subject maybe 4 or 5 pages back at the most. Vicki
     
  12. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    Like I said, this was my first kidding and I felt like something wasn't going right so I called my neighbor, who isn't all that familiar with goats, mostly other animals. She seemed easily distracted, and not in "serious" labor most of the time. I had three human kids, so I know that when it's time to get down to business, nothing will distract her. And she had pushed a little bit, and then quit pushing. So, I didn't know what that meant. She is doing fine now, or seems to be. She's in the "hosptial ward" in our wind-proof shed, and looks ready to come out. I went off to the closest town, looking for CMPK, which I didn't find of course. I did find a product called "Calcium Drench" by Goats Choice. It did not contain the phosphorus though. I gave her 20 ML in a hurry soon as I got home. I also got the stuff to make a walmart version of CMPK, and am working on that. My question now is, should I still give her the fake CMPK, and if so, how long from the time she had the Goats Choice Calcuim Drench?

    Also, before we fed the alfalfa pellets, they were getting a alfalfa/timothy blend hay. It was quite high in alfalfa, but when we ran out is when I started supplementing with the pellets. It wasn't the whole pregnancy though, probably just the last 2 1/2 months. Next time, there will be more Alfalfa....I had read somewhere that Alfalfa wasn't all that good for goats, created a lot of bucks, etc. They've also gotten plenty of beat pulp, which also contains calcium.

    My next question. I have two more does due to kid very soon. Of course I do not want a repeat of this scenario. Should I give them the fake CMPK, OR the Calcuim Drench? If so, should I start now, or wait until doe goes into labor, (as per directions on the calcium drench bottle,) which I do not wish to do because I may not be able to be here. I just took two weeks of vacation, hoping at least two of my does would kid, and only one has. The second one didn't take on her first breeding, (I didn't know it until her due date passed) and is not due until Tuesday. SIGH.
    Thanks again everyone.
    Anita
     
  13. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    let them have alfalfa pellets free choice 24/7 now at least until freshening and for your doe. Also no would give anymore cmpk or homemade at least until this evening. Then either. normal would be either free choice alfafla pellets or at least 3 lbs per day per goat.
     
  14. Anita I alraedy emailed you but there is good advice here too.
    If you need meds call Dr Joy Watkins at Bedford Animal hospital 540-586-0372. Tell her you got goats from me and what you need. She will call in a prescription to PBS for you or get you meds, or let me know, I can sell you a dose of most anything:).
    Becky
     
  15. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    Joy Watkins! That was it! My equine dentist told me her name and I immediately forgot it. Yes, the girls are still getting free choice alfalfa pellets, and will be until I can find some more alfalfa hay...or not, if somebody smart tells me I shouldn't give it to them after they kid. I called Dr. Watkins office, but too late, they had already closed. Darn.

    Well, mom seems to be doing much better. She's happy to be back outdoors. I put up a low "gate" that she can step over, but her kids can't, and she seems happy with that. They were running all over hiding behind the shed etc. We really were not prepared at all to have kids and moms together. A friend is coming over tomorrow and help me make up a safe paddock for them with goat fencing, (and toys) within the girls paddock.

    Thanks to everyone here for all your help. I really do appreciate it. Hopefully next time I will be more prepared for what might happen. I just feel grateful that we didn't lose anyone.
    Thanks again, Anita
     
  16. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well there are a lot of really smart breeders on this forum and don't think there is any that will ever tell you NOT to feed alfalfa or alfalfa pellets. If you want that girl to milk she best get alfalfa
     
  17. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

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    Mine get pellets 24/7 all year long as we cant get alfafa here at all...My girls are all raising babies and they need it for their milk...yep you want milk they need it.
     
  18. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    """....I had read somewhere that Alfalfa wasn't all that good for goats, created a lot of bucks, etc.""" Anita

    I bet you didn't read that on this forum. That comes real close to an old saying that the more pointed on the end chicken eggs, would all be roosters when they hatch.....or that if you feed a pregnant sal sweet potato's , her piglets will have sweeter tasting meat when they are butchered.
    I live where folklore can be really believed sometimes, and there is no ryme or reason to any of it......S*it just happens sometimes. .......and Heaven forbid that it happens on a full moon when it does.
     
  19. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    :rofl Whim, you crack me up!
     
  20. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    :really That is almost as "off-the-wall" as feeding alfalfa to milkers will cause entrotoxiema. I really have to wonder....
    Kaye