LM doe died- bloat? gave meds- ok to feed meat to dogs?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by birdiegirl, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    I just lost one of my favorite LM does.....

    Went to milk this AM, she did not get up. Mild to moderate bloat, temp 99.6. 1 year old FF, milking once daily. Not milking very much 1 1/2 quarts daily. 3 pounds alfalfa pellets in evening. 1 pound barley on milkstand. Free choice browse. Loose minerals, UTD on CD/T. CAE/CL/Johnes neg per PAVL.

    Gave banamine, tubed and gave pepto baking soda and veg oil.

    Seemed to be doing worse after an hour I gave 30ml CMPK SQ in case of hypocalcemia, CDT antitoxin SQ and orally. Also gave biomycin SQ. About 30 minutes later she started crying and went into resp arrest. I could not bring her back. At time of death she was severely bloated, was going to trocharize but had no time to run inside for needle.

    2 questions......

    Did any of my medicating cause her to go into arrest? I have had mild bloat here before and usually they come around after a day. If I caused this, I'd like to be told............

    I am planning on cutting her open to look inside- take a liver sample for copper sampling. Ca i freeze the liver sample or okay to just refrigerate?

    Can I use her meat for my dogs after all the meds that I have given?

    Donna
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Donna I am not much help on diagnosis but I do know that bloat was not the cause of her death or at least I don't think it was. Something caused her system to shut down thus causing the bloat and the low temp. When temps get that low it is very very hard to get them back regardless of what we do.
     

  3. mill-valley

    mill-valley New Member

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    It is possible that she had a foreign body or twist/DA something like that. I usually don't tube three things at once with bloat, usually just veg/mineral oil and wait and see. You could start keeping baking soda out free choice, that has seemed to help some here. I have heard that tubing it in bloat cases can sometimes make things worse as it alters the pH of the rumen.

    I don't think the meds caused the arrest. If she was severely bloated it could have been the pressure on her diaphragm causing problems. I have in the past used a 14g needle to trocharize a goat, but that doesn't always work especially if it's frothy bloat...the foam won't come out. Gassy bloat putting a tube down their throat will release the gas too. However...sounds like she had issues before the bloat came along.

    I had a doe die like this last fall...vet came to look at her in the evening, wanted her in first thing in the morning for further testing and she was dead by morning. He thought impaction.
     
  4. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Well,
    I just posted her to see if I could find anything abnormal and to get a liver sample. All of the organs appeared normal to me, no abscesses or gross abnormalities (to my untrained eye) The lungs were not foamy, but looked splotchy- a post-mortem finding? The digestive system was very large, filled with plant material, some undigested leaves, and some undigested grain.
    I am wondering if the rumen had shut down- the large intestine was gassy with a bit of liquid, it felt like a soft balloon. There was no solid material at all. The rumen itself was very full. Not so much gas, there was some, but mostly plant material.....
    This is the first goat that I have lost. I feel like I have let her down.
     
  5. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I'm sorry you lost your doe. I know it's easy to blame yourself, but it sounds like you did all you could for her. As for feeding the meat to your dogs, I'd check with your vet and see if dogs are sensitive to either Banamine or Biomycin. I wouldn't be concerned about the CMPK or antitoxin as I've never heard of any withdrawal time on those things before consuming the meat or milk. Kathie
     
  6. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    So sorry you lost your doe. :(
    No. This doe was in shock and her system was shutting down, before you started giving the meds.
    Not sure...but this sounds like a lot of barley, to me? I've never used it, but don't think I'd give this much, even to a heavy milker.
    The only drug you used that would concern me would be the banamine with the dogs. Worse case scenerio if you gave it at the recommended dose...is it would kill any pains they might have.If she died an hr. after you gave it, her system was shutting down, so you "might" cut the injection site and surrounding tissue out and use the rest of the goat. But, to be safe...ask a vet.
    Kaye
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I use barley but it is mixed half and half with whole oats so I also don't know it it could be a problem or not.
     
  8. Truly

    Truly New Member

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    I lost a doe in May the same way. She had eaten too much barley.

    Now I have another goat that will slosh her food all over the place if there's not enough barley. She can handle a lb of it, but she has worked her way up to that.
     
  9. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Hmm.....

    You really think it was too much barley? I say the amount is 1 lb, but it is a plastic container that held potato salad at one time- the container says 16oz. It is approximately 2 fistfuls of grain....it really is not a lot- they eat it so fast I can barely get them milked before they are finished.......she was getting a container full twice daily- I only give it now once daily at milking.......I've been feeding it to all my goats since they freshened.
     
  10. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    What was her behavior before she died? How long had she been on one milking per day?

    Just wondering if she had a metabolic problem like milk fever, or if the low temp was caused by the shock? Hard to guess at this stuff.

    Sorry this happened. I'd freeze the liver, because Vicki has said that she does that.

    :(Oi, what a problem.
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I think :) that the bloat was from dieing not the problem. With "the large intestine was gassy with a bit of liquid, it felt like a soft balloon." I will guess impaction, nothing was coming from the 4th stomach into the intestines. Something she ate before she was out eating all the leaves that were the mat on the top of her rumen.

    At her last milking did she milk normal amounts? Didn't seem unsteady or unwilling to come from the barn or up to the milkstand...this could also be milkfever. Vicki
     
  12. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    That's what I thought too, looking at her intestines- nothing was moving down through them. I fished through all the digesta and leaves and whatnot, but did not see anything that could have caused a blockage.

    She milked her normal amounts the day before; at evening feeding she appeared normal and was eating alfalfa alongside the other goats. Now, she did have an episode several months ago- mild bloat, scouring, decreased milk production- I cut out grain, gave CMPK and fluids and she recovered within one day, and seemed normal since then. Except that- her milk production never quite came up to what it was in early lactation- I chalked it up to my fear of over-graining her, and did not push her to milk. I switched everyone to once daily milking because of my work schedule, and I hated milking her anyway as her teats were small and she has small orifices.
    I gave her 30cc CMPK SQ this afternoon, but she passed shortly afterwards, so I was afraid that the calcium caused the arrest. I was just worried about milkfever.
    I am home with the goats during the day- I see them many times throughout the day, and I always notice if someone seems *off*. I honestly did not see a problem with her until I went out this morning to milk.
    None of my other goats have these issues.
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    When you moved to once a day did you keep her grain the same for that milking or add to it? Like if you were feeding her 1 pound in the morning and 1 pound at night you gave her more than 1 pound because she wasn't coming in to be milked to have her other pound?

    You did what I would do, it's all hindsite really. Vicki
     
  14. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Vicki, I only gave her one feeding of grain (1 lb) when I moved to one milking. I did not double it. If she finished before I was done, I gave alfalfa pellets.

    Yes, it is all hindsight now....just hard to get the memory of her last moments out of my head.
     
  15. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Sorry this turned out so badly. I am putting a 3 year old down this evening if it stops raining. It will be the first goat in years I have put down with no diagnosis, nothing I did worked, no lab result answered one question except her immunity in her blood test was nill. I have so over the top used drugs on her she will be burned, and no way will I use her liver for a biopsy for the farm. Awful is she is no where near sick or dieing, but her skin is so involved in something that I can't take the risk of breeding her to my buck, just lifting her tail makes it bleed in the folds. So mysteries abound still, sometimes all we can do is guess. Vicki
     
  16. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Oh no- so sorry Vicki, I am sorry to hear that, but thanks for telling me if for no other reason than it makes me realize that if you are in the business of owning-breeding goats, this is an eventuality that we will all face. Not just as newbies.......I am just taking it hard because the line between having my goats as livestock or pets is very fuzzy........(obviously when it comes down to it- they are livestock here, as my dogs are running around the yard in glee with body parts everywhere......)
    Sorry to hear of your goat, at least her passing will be humane and quick.

    Donna
     
  17. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    Maybe the poor thing has an immunity disorder? Sorry Vickie : (
     
  18. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    It's my guess also Sherrie, especially in that her breeder used cattle colostrum on her also. I have a beautiful doeling out of her and GE, and she has 2 other daughters in show herds. Vicki
     
  19. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    So sorry, Vicki. More sorry that you're having to do what's best for the girl. May her daughters make her proud.
    Kaye
     
  20. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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