Right now I give my 3 pregnant goats 2 cups of Purina Noble Goat each a day and maybe 1 cup of alfalfa pellets every other day in addition to their grass hay and minerals as a treat. I haven't been able to find any good alfalfa and they are due any day now. I know alfalfa is much preferred over grass hay for lactating does and helps them produce more milk. What do you guys think of a regime of continuing with grass hay, 2 cups of Purina Noble Goat chow? I'm going to start giving them more alfalfa pellets and doing it every day....but how much should I give them would you think? In short, with what I have....what would YOU give your lactating goats?
Pronking Publius
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If these are from good milking lines, and they were mine, this is how I would be feeding them.
The one year we tried the Oats "experiment" my girls milked well, but had to dry up early and then had our first full-blown case of milk fever. Fortunately, I realized something was "off" and had pulled out before the first dairy goat was due - have never had a problem with milk fever or reduced production since we have returned to the pelleted feed.
I know that Sara (Blissberry, multiple Top Ten Nubians) uses Purina Noble Goat and know at least 6 others with really good milkers who use it as well and do really well on it. You want to use management that most closely reflects the goats and production that you have.
And yes, some grass hay or good browse as they need the long stem fiber.
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Well, Matt, I must have helped over two dozen breeders and their goats when they switched to whole oats (even rolled oats) as their primary grain and then they were crashing all over the place... But your call.
If you think a doe is in trouble, start drenching her once or twice (my pick) a day with MFO or oral CMPK (2 ounces = 1/4 cup) mixed with gatorade and a little molasses - for energy. You may be able to squeeze past it if you start now. Handling a full blown case of hypocalcemia is no picnic - and if she crashes prior to kidding you could lose the kids as well as the doe.
Then get some CMPK injectable from your vet to have on hand if you need it.
I was referring to the Dairy pellet for milkers.
PS The other twenty or more breeders that have had ketosis/hypocalcemia/milk fever and have helped coach them through were not feeding alfalfa or not enough alfalfa or alfalfa pellets to their heavily bred does.
If you think a doe is in trouble, start drenching her once or twice (my pick) a day with MFO or oral CMPK (2 ounces = 1/4 cup) mixed with gatorade and a little molasses - for energy. You may be able to squeeze past it if you start now. Handling a full blown case of hypocalcemia is no picnic - and if she crashes prior to kidding you could lose the kids as well as the doe.
Then get some CMPK injectable from your vet to have on hand if you need it.
I was referring to the Dairy pellet for milkers.
PS The other twenty or more breeders that have had ketosis/hypocalcemia/milk fever and have helped coach them through were not feeding alfalfa or not enough alfalfa or alfalfa pellets to their heavily bred does.
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If you have a confirmed breeding date and you are within 5 days of that date, you should be able to go ahead and induce her.
Sometimes that is the best course when a doe is starting to decline, rather than improving. Metabolically it will be easier to correct once she is not carrying a load of kids, but you will still need to continue to drench her until she is back on her feet.
I would also suggest that you steal some cud for her - don't give it the same time as the MFO. See if you can jump start her rumen (just in case it is getting sluggish). Can't hurt, might help.
Sometimes that is the best course when a doe is starting to decline, rather than improving. Metabolically it will be easier to correct once she is not carrying a load of kids, but you will still need to continue to drench her until she is back on her feet.
I would also suggest that you steal some cud for her - don't give it the same time as the MFO. See if you can jump start her rumen (just in case it is getting sluggish). Can't hurt, might help.
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That's great. If you hadn't been drenching with the MFO your ketosis would have been worse and your calcium lower.
If you give the propylene glycol, dilute it as well, with at least 1/2 again as much gatorade (type stuff) as the PG. Many folks don't like PG, but if you need to save a does' life - it's, well, a life-saver. Molasses is a little more benign and still provides calories and energy and minerals too.
Keep up the good work and keep an eye on your other does. Looking forward to some good baby news soon!
If you give the propylene glycol, dilute it as well, with at least 1/2 again as much gatorade (type stuff) as the PG. Many folks don't like PG, but if you need to save a does' life - it's, well, a life-saver. Molasses is a little more benign and still provides calories and energy and minerals too.
Keep up the good work and keep an eye on your other does. Looking forward to some good baby news soon!
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Drenching with MFO may keep you busy - BUT it works. Sorry it works. Too many folks have been helped with this or other concoctions when they have been unable to obtain CMPK injectable.
Think about it ....Why else would Sue Reith have a homemade Calcium recipe? MFO is just easier than crushing up calcium tablets etc.
MFO is best for "just starting" ketosis/hypocalcemia, but have seen it work in full blown cases. And yes, why folks prefer molasses over Propylene Glycol - fewer side effects.
Glad your doe is doing better and you are adjusting your management now.
For Jason: Not necessarily scientific - when we started we fed what the breeder before us fed - alfalfa and a 16% grain. Now we just understand the science behind it better.
Browse is awesome for goats - the best, really - but for high production animals, having alfalfa available as the mainstay, as the goat chooses, is wise. For you - you feed alfalfa pellets and browse (the long stem fiber, as it were). Great alfalfa is available here and at a much more affordable price than pellets, even including the waste factor. Of course, we pick up the "waste" hay and feed it to the calves, so very little waste in the long run. Great compost pile too.
Think about it ....Why else would Sue Reith have a homemade Calcium recipe? MFO is just easier than crushing up calcium tablets etc.
MFO is best for "just starting" ketosis/hypocalcemia, but have seen it work in full blown cases. And yes, why folks prefer molasses over Propylene Glycol - fewer side effects.
Glad your doe is doing better and you are adjusting your management now.
For Jason: Not necessarily scientific - when we started we fed what the breeder before us fed - alfalfa and a 16% grain. Now we just understand the science behind it better.
Browse is awesome for goats - the best, really - but for high production animals, having alfalfa available as the mainstay, as the goat chooses, is wise. For you - you feed alfalfa pellets and browse (the long stem fiber, as it were). Great alfalfa is available here and at a much more affordable price than pellets, even including the waste factor. Of course, we pick up the "waste" hay and feed it to the calves, so very little waste in the long run. Great compost pile too.
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Cute kids - cute little coats.
The only change that I would make to your feeding program would be to substitute rolled barley for whole oats. Any grain is better fed rolled than whole - you get 25% better conversion when the grain has been broken. It has been suggested that oats can actually interfere with the uptake of calcium, but I don't have any scientific data to back this up - the person who told me this does have advanced degrees in animal nutrition, however. Oh, and raised goats for 20 years, as well as dairy cattle. All I know is that straight oats has not been a good gig for most people. Your current ration just means you are adding more fiber to the diet and their main carbohydrate source is the Noble Goat.
I think "if I remember correctly", cuz you had lots of threads of this type going at the same time - that the glitch in your feeding was the lack of a source of calcium - ie, the alfalfa pellets. Otherwise the above should do your goats just fine.
The only change that I would make to your feeding program would be to substitute rolled barley for whole oats. Any grain is better fed rolled than whole - you get 25% better conversion when the grain has been broken. It has been suggested that oats can actually interfere with the uptake of calcium, but I don't have any scientific data to back this up - the person who told me this does have advanced degrees in animal nutrition, however. Oh, and raised goats for 20 years, as well as dairy cattle. All I know is that straight oats has not been a good gig for most people. Your current ration just means you are adding more fiber to the diet and their main carbohydrate source is the Noble Goat.
I think "if I remember correctly", cuz you had lots of threads of this type going at the same time - that the glitch in your feeding was the lack of a source of calcium - ie, the alfalfa pellets. Otherwise the above should do your goats just fine.
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And this shows that one size doesn't fit all. Never have had to worry about my does getting fat - they work it all off in the milk pail. OTOH, I hear that Nigerians can get fat on air :biggrin
Start with the basics and adjust accordingly. Best thing is to imitate the feeding program of the breeder you are purchasing from - if you like the condition of their goats and their productivity. If you find that problems are arising, such as in Matt's case, then you had best reevaluate and make some changes.
We do add 1 handful of BOSS to our goats ration. They like it, they have glossier coats and Dr. Parrish at WSU told me that BOSS is one of the best things to feed a goat for rumen health.
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BTW< We do feed the Boers differently - when they are not nursing kids and for the first 3 months of pregnancy they are on excellent grass hay or alfalfa/grass (same price here) as they get fat on alfalfa. As much browse as I can have them eating.
But they are not putting 1 1/2 gallons to 2 gallons of milk each day into the milk bucket - big difference.
But they are not putting 1 1/2 gallons to 2 gallons of milk each day into the milk bucket - big difference.
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I am curious to know what the milk production is on your goats?
I ask, because for me, I have found that I do better following management of folks with similar animals - i.e., production, such as Tracy Stampke or Lauren Acton or Sara/Blissberry as they have strong production goats. So more for folks who are trying to figure out which management program to follow.
(kind of like knowing which area of the country different goaters are in - I would never worm our girls the way the folks down south do, for example).
I ask, because for me, I have found that I do better following management of folks with similar animals - i.e., production, such as Tracy Stampke or Lauren Acton or Sara/Blissberry as they have strong production goats. So more for folks who are trying to figure out which management program to follow.
(kind of like knowing which area of the country different goaters are in - I would never worm our girls the way the folks down south do, for example).
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Angie - 10-12 lbs for a mini-Nubian is strong production. Not trying to make anyone feel defensive here. But truly a Nubian that
produces 6 lbs/milk a day with a 6 month long lactation can be fed differently than a Nubian giving 12 lbs/day and that lactates for the full 300 days.
And things are not mutually exclusive - we get a 16% dairy feed without soy and certainly never any animal by-products. Our feed company actually listened to the goat breeders and they use culled peas (26% protein) to provide the protein base in the grain. No soy. Lots of right ways to get ones' goals accomplished, but for relatively new folks it is generally safer to start with a base program of good hay and grain, excellent mineral, worming program etc and then tweak your feeding program from there.
Still always recommend that if someone is purchasing nice animals from a breeder to try to imitate that breeder's feed program before making changes.
One gal purchased a doe in milk from me last year. She was a FF producing 14# milk/day. Within 2 weeks she was calling me as "someone" had told her to feed grass hay and that only a handful of oats was necessary for grain. After I talked her down off the ledge, I asked her what breed of goat the "expert" had and she said "Nigerian Dwarves" Talk about apples and oranges!
produces 6 lbs/milk a day with a 6 month long lactation can be fed differently than a Nubian giving 12 lbs/day and that lactates for the full 300 days.
And things are not mutually exclusive - we get a 16% dairy feed without soy and certainly never any animal by-products. Our feed company actually listened to the goat breeders and they use culled peas (26% protein) to provide the protein base in the grain. No soy. Lots of right ways to get ones' goals accomplished, but for relatively new folks it is generally safer to start with a base program of good hay and grain, excellent mineral, worming program etc and then tweak your feeding program from there.
Still always recommend that if someone is purchasing nice animals from a breeder to try to imitate that breeder's feed program before making changes.
One gal purchased a doe in milk from me last year. She was a FF producing 14# milk/day. Within 2 weeks she was calling me as "someone" had told her to feed grass hay and that only a handful of oats was necessary for grain. After I talked her down off the ledge, I asked her what breed of goat the "expert" had and she said "Nigerian Dwarves" Talk about apples and oranges!
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Yep, peas and barley. That and some beautiful alfalfa - a goat breeders happy land!
That and some beautiful alfalfa - a goat breeders happy land!
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Nope not saying that at all.
I am saying that if you have goats with excellent genetics, you have to manage them properly to allow them to reach their full genetic potential - and thrive.
I "like" your goals. :biggrin
I am saying that if you have goats with excellent genetics, you have to manage them properly to allow them to reach their full genetic potential - and thrive.
I "like" your goals. :biggrin
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