Johnnes

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Sharon, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. Sharon

    Sharon New Member

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    OK I know I am opening a can of worms here :sigh but I am on a information quest. I have read about Johnnes in my Goat Med. book and I have heard from some reputable folks that Johnnes is very much so present in goats. Does anyone have a website(s) to share for more info on the subject? I do want to say that I am in no way trying to scare folks I am just trying to gather info on the subject.
    Since I have opened the can of worms....what about testing? how reliable is it? Best lab to go through? Process of testing?

    Roseanna?? What info do you have...I know you have researched it heavily.
     
  2. Sharon

    Sharon New Member

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  3. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature New Member

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  4. DostThouHaveMilk

    DostThouHaveMilk New Member

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    In goats? Not a whole lot of info here. I've spoken with the State vet, but he admits to not knowing much about goats.
    The State vet that spoke at the ODGA Conference October of 2006 made it sound as though there are different strains (?) of the m. paratuberculosis (sp?) . That sheep ad goats shared one and cattle had a slightly different one. Deer, of course, carry and spread all of them...I did some searching after that and found some sites, which I can look up later.
    I know about the sensitivity of the cow tests and how they are able to DNA test to make srue it is Johne's and not another trigger.
    I do not know a whole about the goat research and doubt the tests would be as accurate since it took serious pushing for the cattle tests to get as accurate and it took lots of funding (which has since been removed from the State programs) and lots and lots of testing and samples.
    There's a newborn fushing in the other room requesting her colostrum, so I best get moving.
    I'll see if I can't track down those websites I found after that conference.
     
  5. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Here is a website you might want to check out.
    http://www.johnes.org/general/diagnosis.html

    Dr. Elizabeth Manning gave a very informative speech on the subject at the Wisconsin ADGA Convention.
    Two points made that stuck in my mind:
    1. It takes a great deal of time to accurately diagnois it in a fecal.
    2. Goats tested should be over 18 mo.
    Kaye
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    " There are, in fact, 8 available tests: 3 methods for detecting the bacterium that causes Johne's disease (Mycobacterium paratuberculosis), 4 blood tests for detecting serum antibody, and 2 assays for cellular immunity. Five of these tests are commercially available from multiple companies for use by veterinary diagnostic laboratories worldwide. A few private laboratories have tests they develop themselves. Some tests are simple enough to be able to be done in a veterinary clinic. However, most require sophisticated laboratory equipment and skilled laboratory technicians to be performed. In addition, factors such as the amplitude of a test result (numerical value) and herd infection rate (prevalence) can influence interpretation of Johne's disease test results. Consequently, it is recommended test interpretation be made by veterinarians who are experienced in laboratory diagnostics."
    ..................................................

    Not to squelch this discussion at all, but in cattle the above paragraph pretty much sums it up. Millions of dollars in testing, and they are down to 8 tests, that may work if used with other testing and must be interpreted...sorry I want a test to be yes or no, not interpreted. A blood test or fecal test, then to state your are Johnnes negative is missleading. Now an established herd testing their oldest stock, sure. But that doesn't even include my herd, perhaps in another 4 or 5 years I could have an idea, maybe. Vicki
     
  7. DostThouHaveMilk

    DostThouHaveMilk New Member

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    http://ohioline.osu.edu/vme-fact/0003.html

    Not one I had in mind but decent anyways.
    We were part of the Voluntary program in Ohio since it first came out with our cattle. That was for the past decade. The funding ran out last year and we did not do our annual test this year. We'll be testing semie annually at this point due to funds.
    They have more information than when they started but are still a ways from understanding the disease. Again, a focus on cattle and not sheep and goats and the like.
     
  8. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    :lol I have to agree with Vicki...I want a yes/no answer. Money better spent on feed. And I'd never advertise my herd as negative. Not when an animal can turn positive after several years of neg. ? False advertising ring a bell?
    Hhhhmmm....another reason to heat treat/pasturize?
    Kaye
     
  9. DostThouHaveMilk

    DostThouHaveMilk New Member

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    The problem is that it appears the bacteria can survive pastuerization.
    They tested fluid milk off the grocery shelves awhile back and were able to culture the bacteria that causes Johne's.
    You start spending too much time thinking about it all and it can just make you want to give up raising livestock all together.....
     
  10. Johnes...is a funny thing. They pick it up till about the age of 6 months. But, then it will not test till they are older. With the tests also taking up to a month to read(fecal). The biggest problem with Johnes is that the animal does not shed the bact. all the time. There are times when stress is involved that the shed heavy numbers, but when stress free...very few. That is one reason why you should have a fecal test done on them, they pick up the lower numbers better than the blood work.

    There is a problem in goats and cattle with johnes. The problem is that most people dont test or even think about testing. Just keep sreading it around into other herds from cattle and goat sales. Also, one of the biggest problems is that the time factor of it takes up to 16 months to show up on a test. The best way to think of Johnes is...its like TB. It takes a long time exposed to the bacterium before it is a full case.

    There are many things that you can do to prevent the spread that is not at all high priced. The biggest thing is to seperate the kids from the dams and kidding area. I am not talking about in a few hours....it comes out it goes away. Dont house the young stock in the same barn as older animals....or have aleast a solid wall between them. Feed heat treated milk at birth, and DONT feed raw milk to them. The biggest thing that they have found is feed youngest to oldest. Don't go back and feed the kids/calves after you have milked the older animals. Feed them before and work your way up in age. That way you can pass the bacteria. This is a VERY common pratice in the swine world....the big thing there is greasy pig.

    I will look to see if I have a test result around still and post it here. Its like the Preg test where it with numbers and then has either...negitive...weak positive...positive...and high positive. The difference between them is basically....

    Negitive=negitive for all antibodies
    Weak Positive= has a few antibodies...but might be from something else(recheck)
    Positive= animal is positive but not shedding at the moment but, can anytime
    Strong positive=she is shedding like mad

    The best place that I can think of off the top of my head to contact is the Vet school at Univ of Wisc Madison. They have a whole herd of positive cattle that they are doing research on.

    There is a vaccine out to use also....but most vets will not give since if you get it on your skin....you are VERY likely to die. SO...go figure why they dont mess with it.

    Ken in MI
     
  11. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    I agree with that! Since they've done so much work with it...
    Kaye
     
  12. Sharon

    Sharon New Member

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    Thanks for the thoughts...I was looking at the testing thread and it got me to thinking of a conversation about Johnes with another breeder.

    BTW, Hi Ken!
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Ken are you testing your goats? How do your vets and other dairymen respond to you milking goats? Vicki