Is this linebreeding to close

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Jennie, May 18, 2008.

  1. Jennie

    Jennie New Member

    I was thinking of selling my lamancha buck as the dry yearlings that will need to be breed this fall share the same sire as my buck. I used the planned breeding on the ADGA site and one would be at 19.16% and the other at 22%. Is this to close? I will definitely need a new buck in the next yr as this years kids are all out of him. Thanks for your thought and input.

  2. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Hi Jennie
    Since you ask about "breedings", I thought you might find this article interesting. It covers both inbreeding, and linebreeding.....and is based on a breeder's guide that was written many years ago.
    Kinda hoping to see these old timers comment on this article us newbies can still learn a few tricks of the trade.


  3. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    With my mini's I breed father to daughter , mother to son but never brother to sister Now I have used like a 3rd gen to a 2nd so guess that would be half sister/brother of the same original sire but different mothers. If that makes sense.
    We know that the goats that first come to the US such as the boer and ND all have a lot of line breeding in them.
  4. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

    I , purposefully, bred a doe to her grandsire this past year and I ended up with an outstanding buckling and doeling...and it ended up being 29.14% inbred. I was lucky in that both kids were "keepers". I'm even considering breeding this doeling back to her sire which will make it 48.09% inbred. This is with the use of AI. I'm working at locking in two different traits that are very strong in both the dam's lines and the sire's lines.

    I've bred daughters to sires and dams to sons.....especially when I'm wanting to "lock in" a trait.

    When you do inbreeding or line breeding you HAVE to get rid of emotion and be willing to cull the inferior kids.

    LOL....Whim, the difference in line breeding and in breeding= "If it works it's line breeding, if it doesn't it's in breeding". Quoted from the King Ranch in the Quarter horse industry. :lol
  5. Jennie

    Jennie New Member

    Thanks guys. In this case it would be the same father but different mothers. I must be crazy because I'm not even done with kidding for the year and am already planning breedings for the fall.
  6. Shykid Acres

    Shykid Acres Guest

  7. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

    I thin that if you really really like all the traits the sire is giving you, then it can be a good idea to linebreed with this buckling. Folks say that if you linebreed you have to be prepared to cull heavily.

    I bred a Victor daughter to a Victor son and the doe is considerably smaller than her triplet counterparts (in other words, the doeling was a single and is smaller than triplet does born 2 weeks later). She is very nice and the gal that is buying her wants to breed mini Saanens so is thrilled. Me, not so much. :)

    The time I bred Victor to Venus (both have Skeeter as their sire) I got an incredible buckling, but again, 2/3 the size of his sire or dam.
    Keep in mind that Victor and Venus are both Purebred Saanens which usually means that they are already much more closely bred than
    most American Saanens. Jamie Burks did a fair amount of linebreeding all along, so the effects may have been somewhat exaggerated. I love what Victor throws when bred to my American does - and very consistent kids.

  8. New Member

    I honestly think the right anwer is, if you have to ask than no don't do it. It isn't just about the percentages, it's about the percentages of the traits that are heritable also.

    All of us have mentos who we pick their brains. Mine in Nubian bloodline is Tim Pruitt. If I had a question like this I would specifically be asking him. Certainly there is a lamancha breeder who could more speicifically answer your bloodline question on this breeding...sort of a been there done that or seen that kind of thing. vicki
  9. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    :rofl Thanks V., you just made my day with "brain picking".

    I posed very similar questions to Tim not so long ago, and I won't copy all his comments.....but will give a few bits of what he said.

    Great hearing from you. Many of the old breeders have said, "If a buck isn't worthy to breed to his daughters he is of no good."
    With that being said, I have never followed this. I do believe in linebreeding but I haven't inbred too much. Those animals that I have seen whose sire was their grandsire - none of them were weird, 5 legged, or even stupid.""""
    """ In breeding goats you have to think about where you are going to be in 5 years down the road, not just what you are doing now. """"
    """"I would make sure the dam of the buck was a superior dam. In using a buck, it is the dam's strengths that you are wanting to pass on. I assume the "good" buck you are using comes from a superior dam but don't expect his strengths to come through without choosing a son from a superior dam.

    Ok for your question of breeding 1/2 siblings. Using a son of your buck (whose own dam is superior) and breeding to his half sister whose dam is not kin, should be a good move. You will be passing on the strengths of their common sire and also the superior dam of the buck."""""


    I want to personally thank Tim for all his insight into stuff like this. My herd will someday be a melting pot of many of Tim's, Kaye's, Vicki's, Barb V's, and Sondra's practices. Geez, just thinking about what a blessing that a bunch of folks on here are to me.

    Thanks , Whim
  10. Jennie

    Jennie New Member

    Thank you again everyone. You gave me lots to think about. The ones in question are lamanchas which run very heavy on the Rockin CB line. I guess it will give me a good excuse to call up Cindy and have a talk with her. :biggrin

    Whim-Thanks for sharing those points from Tim.

    Vicki-good point.
  11. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

    I think it was Kaye who I remember saying once was that if you had a good--make that great--doe (at least 90 on appraisal with a E udder), if you breed her to her son, any resulting bucklings would be seriously prepotent...we tried that with Nyla and her buck from 2004. We got Legend. We have used him but have only gotten bucks in the one yr of limited use so far. None of them are odd. Legend himself is quite nice, just...SHORT. Hopefully he will intensify Nyla's udder as well as her lack of heighth :lol

    30.12% inbred according to adga but at least the contributing animals are pretty nice...
  12. Our GCH Maire is EX 91 twice . We have her son that is EX 90. His full Sister is EX 90 and another full brother is EX 91. We are seriously thinking of breeding her to this son thsi fall. Never tried this but if it works I think it could be pretty awesome.