interesting dosage...

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by stoneyheightsfarm, Aug 22, 2008.

  1. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Hi again, y'all! I got my meds in the mail last night from my vet (valbazen for everyone, albon for boys only since girls' cocci levels are lower and we'll keep checking to see if the medicated feed will bring them down just the little bit they need) My interesting dosage is on the boys' albon. Vet Rxed the "step down for days 2 thru 5" with a huge BUT: she dosed them at a far higher weight than they are (but not quite double). So, while days 2 thru 5 dosages are slightly lower than what y'all recommend, the first day's dosage is significantly higher. Since I don't have a vast bottle of the stuff to work with, I thought I'd follow this dosage to make sure I have enough (wouldn't want to run out on day 4!). First treatment was last night, and last will be Monday night. I'll be taking fecals back up on Tuesday morning. I will keep you posted--thought this was interesting.
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    The mods and admins have been talking about this on the moderator forum. The dosage isn't going to be changed on our forum. Perhaps those up north who get freezes can use sulfa's this way for treatment we can not. I also know that alot of advice is giving out on the internet that doesn't come with testing, most do not fecal it's simply what has been done for so long. With fecaling I know that the result that you got with using the sulfa at 1/2 life, and having more cocci in fecal after your 5 days is typical. Now that your vet has doubled your first dosage which if it is the yellow albon for pups, is still likely not strong enough...make sure and fecal again to know if even this dosage works.

    The point being, and what this forum is about, is to use it correctly for prevention so you never have to use treatment anyway. Because honestly treatment entails a whole lot more than just using a sulfa, but banamine to stop the scar tissue inflamation in the intestines and building immunity in the kid.

    It takes a lot to overdose a sulfa, or to use it for too long considering you can use it for 21 days in bacterial pnemonia.

    So yes follow your vets advice, but I certainly would be back in on day 5 to make sure the advice worked. It was actually fecals and proving via liver biopsy after doing blood test for copper, or calcium in the blood of does who she diagnosed with (ketosis) which she now knows isn't correct....is how I groomed my vet to be the great goat vet she is.

    And all you have gone through with all this crazy advice coming to you in a hundred directions shows you the reason why you want to learn to fecal yourself, so you can know....use your sulfa, fecal, 1/2 your sulfa, fecal doe day 3 did the numbers lower again? If it didn't you can't 1/2 your sulfa. Then you don't have to listen to anybody tell you what works. And the first thing out of your mouth when you do listen to others is do you fecal to know this drug/wormer is working, did you do one liver biopsy to know you need to bolus...etc...or did you just parrot information that someone else told you they do...and alot of the original info still came without testing. Why I love this forum..I test, Kaye Tests, Sara Tests and we all have mentors who test and get our information we pass when we don't have practical experience with it, from other goat owners who test and do the stuides themselves. Sure we have some old wives tales mixed in...because we are all old wives :) Vicki
     

  3. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    I completely understand!! This is why I intend to be back to the vet with fecal samples on Tuesday. She is a lovely, humble lady who specializes in goats--meat goats. She admittedly has few diary goat clients and is willing to listen and to learn. When I spoke with her about coming off medicated feed 2 months prior to kidding she told me that that sounded backward to her, but that's because her experience is with meat goats, not diary goats. With dairy goats, that makes sense to her but would want to look into what we need to do since we'd be removing medicated feed. I told her that I got this information from a large dairy goat breeder in TX :) and she sounded not only impressed, but appreciative that I am willing to research and share my findings with her. Since she's a very busy woman and I got my medication and dosages in the mail, and since the dosages are quite a bit higher than what you hear from folks who give you the cattle dose, I thought it would be okay to give this a try. But like you said, I will go back to do fecals. She does hers by centrifuge rather than flotation, but told me that anytime I want, I can go up there and she will teach me how to do flotation and sell me flotation solution. I want to learn to do much of this myself, but I also know how valuable a good relationship with a vet can be, and if she's willing to share her expertise, listen to others and research to learn with me, I think that's a winning combination and a relationship well worth developing. I hope I have good news to tell you about our numbers next week, but in case I don't I'll have some DGI printouts in my purse when I go. I think she'd be very open to your dosage suggestions if that turns out to be the case.
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I think she'd be very open to your dosage suggestions if that turns out to be the case.
    ...................

    Yes but if you really looked at her dosages, the 5 days they are on the meds with her dosages are really very likely to be more than the mg/kg we would use over the same exact 5 days :) I bet it works this time. vicki
     
  5. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    It WORKED! I'm so excited, I can hardly contain myself, but there were NO coccidia oocysts in today's fecal!!!! One of the bucklings has a few HC still, but I anticipated that since he did so poorly in taking his meds--the stubborn spitter! So, I have a double dose of valbazen for him.

    Interestingly, there was something on both samples that my vet has not seen and will be sending to the lab for further help in identifying it. It has an operculum on one end, and from what I can see, looks like it could be liver fluke? We'll wait and see what the lab says. There were very few. She said the slide looked drastically different, as last time it was covered and this time we really had to search to find anything. She also showed me how to do the fecal flotation myself and can help me get supplies.

    All in all, a very good visit. Incidentally, my boys have gained 17 and 19 pounds respectively over the past 2 weeks alone! Yippee!
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    That's wonderful, and with the mg/kg over those 5 days nearly the same as what we tell folks to use, perhaps it would be better to use the old dosage and not step down so you aren't giving quite so much that first day.

    So your vet just reads a normal slide and doesn't use a chambered slide to count and multiply out eggs? Vicki
     
  7. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Just a normal slide. Will a chambered slide allow you to give a #/g count?
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Yes it's the only kind of slide you can get and eggs per gram count. This way you have a number to compare from month to month and even with cocci and worms in your kid pens from year to year...with those numbers and weights you can know when you are having a bad year as far as parsites go because it does influence your wieghts.

    I have some new friends to goats who came out last month and then this last weekend they hadn't seen the kids in about 4 weeks....they just went on and on how big they had gotten...a good thing. Without weighing I am the opposite kind of barn blind, I think they look small :) vicki
     
  9. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Ah ha. Not the kind of slide you use in a basic biology or A&P class. How would I go about acquainting myself with these and educating myself on how to do all this? Do I need to see a microbiologist/parasitologist?
     
  10. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Read the fecal threads going on right now. Vicki
     
  11. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    There is one thread just abt where to get the slides