INFO on Cydectin(moxidectin)

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by FRW, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. FRW

    FRW New Member

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    I found this on the internet and was not sure that all had read the new findings on the best wormer to use on goats!
    By being able to use the injectable you are only using 1 cc per 110 lbs instead of 1 cc per 22 lbs. This will be cheaper to give as an injectable has anyone tried this??


    Moxidectin (Cydectin®) treatment in goats
    It is recommended that the cattle injectable formulation of moxidectin (recently approved by FDA) be used in goats because moxidectin (Cydectin®) has a superior pharmacokinetic profile in goats when administered by subcutaneous injection as compared to when administered orally.

    This means that a much greater proportion of the drug administered remains in the body at high therapeutic levels, but is no more persistent over time. Therefore, worm resistance to moxidectin will develop more slowly if given by injection to goats. Because the drug reaches high therapeutic levels when injected, there is no need to double the dose.

    So when administering moxidectin by subcutaneous injection, use the cattle dose which is on the label (0.09 mg/lb; 0.2 mg/kg; 21 day meat withdrawal ) This is the one exception with goats where a dewormer should be administered orally and where the regular label dose (not 2 times the dose) should be used.

    However, it is still OK to administer moxidectin orally to goats (just not preferred). But if an individual has a personal preference to administer moxidectin orally to goats, then the sheep oral drench at a 2X dose (0.18 mg/lb; 0.4 mg/kg) should be given.

    The oral sheep drench should be given to sheep.

    Source: Southern Consortium for Small Ruminant Parasite Control (SCSRPC) - wormx.org
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Nope haven't read that but since the cattle pour on works orally I am not changing
     

  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    It's been discussed on other forums. Simply don't have time to do trials on another wormer. I know from fecal here that injectable levamisole given orally works better than the Tramisole sheep oblets or the Prohibit sheep drench (all the same drugs and all the same MG/KG.

    I also know first hand folks (one who purchased milkers from me, one who purchased milkers from a friend of mine who manages like me) who have gotten into trouble using Quest (oral paste Cydectin) when using the Pour-on form at my farm worked on those does. I came to the farm to find anemia and huge numbers of HC on fecal...I wormed them with my pouron, went back in 10 days and refecaled clear. Did they spit out the paste? I don't know. So for me I would be skeptical if simply switching to the injectable form is really going to give us all the benefits we KNOW we have with the cattle pouron given orally. Being able to worm 4 times a year with 3 being profilactic wormings I do anyway...I am not willing to mess with what is working.

    Now someone do the pre-fecals, worm, post fecals, fecal monthly to see if the numbers of HC stay low....sure I would be happy to switch :) Vicki
     
  4. FRW

    FRW New Member

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    The part I liked was that they do not become immune to the worm er as fast as a orally given worm er. I have never heard of this before.I have always used the Cydectin Pour On orally and never had a worm infestation problems. Sure would be cheaper on those who have allot of goats.
    Too bad we are not in the parts of the country where they only have to worm twice a year. Would be nice!!
    My vet friend is who sent me this and he is going to start it on his Boer herd and do decals I will let you know how it does on his Boers/ Only after a year of it working for him would I switch with out checking decals closely.
    Most of his does are 50 percent Nubian so it will be a close test.
     
  5. KJFarm

    KJFarm Senior Member

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    I sold a buck to a gal last weekend, but while she was here, she asked lots of questions about my herd management. She was very impressed with my herd and wanted to know what I wormed them with. These folks are trying to operate an organic farm, and when I told her that I used Cydectin, she went into a high speed shimmy!!! After trying to educate them, I knew that they weren't going to take my word for it, even though they lost have lost animals to parasites overloads. So, in a couple of days I received an email from a long time goat friend (have known her for 50 years), and I knew that this gal had told her what I said about Cydectin. Here is what she sent to me - and no, it won't change my mind about Cydectin, cause I have proven this product for years.


    This is from Elizabeth Pannil DVM
    I told her I've been telling everyone I know not to use it orally,
    that the diesel fuel in it to keep it from washing off the skin/hair
    can't be good for anyone. If it's in the liver, then it's in the meat,
    milk longer when used internally.



    this was on the AASRP list ...so might be a wakeup all call to producers

    Dear List Members,

    A Texas gentleman has been issued a FDA warning letter regarding a

    goat sold for slaughter as food that contained 0.0577 ppm of moxidectin in the

    liver.



    Since moxidectin ( Cydectin ) is not approved for use in goats and no tolerance for

    residues have been established, the goat was found to be adulterated.
     
  6. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    :rofl I wonder what the milk withdrawal is on diesel fuel ?

    Regardless...I'm still using the Cydectin to worm with in the late summer and fall. And right now, the jury's still out on using it topically. I can't afford to loose a doe to nuero problems.
    Kaye
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    NO way am I useing the stuff topically. It is working orally and am not changing.
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Yet Elizabeth has a buck of mine out of Tater :) I actually hadn't seen her in a few years and when she saw my girls out at a show....well to say she was improessed as an understatement.

    She is a DVM but she does not use her vet liscense as a vet lisense but as a USDA inspector for the area south and west of me. She has had goats longer than about anyone I know, but no I do not use her management because it is very old school, I won't go back to that way of thinking.

    We know everything is stored in the liver of the goat, or filtered, of course there would be residue of the drug, there would be of anything.....but notice they didn't find the disiel. And if you look up what is in Cydectin pouron it is not disiel or kerosene or all the other words used to inflame. It's been used orally for how long now? Much much longer than I have used it orally and still no stories of death in bloodlines earlier than before use. Poppycock :) Vicki
     
  9. KJFarm

    KJFarm Senior Member

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    Here's a couple more interesting tales I've heard in recent years about Cydectin. First one from a big Boer goat breeder - claimed Cydectin caused parrot mouthed kids. Second came from a newbie who reads way too much on the internet - claims Cydectin causes sterility. Bottom line is, you can read and hear anything, but you need to visit with people who have used the product, to get the truth. Had a woman in our area, new to goats, cause quite a stir about Cydectin about 7 years ago. She helped a friend worm her animals, and this friend's best doe died within 3 days of giving it. She called everybody around here, that she could think of, including the area vets, to tell them not to advise anyone to use it. When she called me and I asked lots of questions, I told her that it wasn't the Cydectin, that they had aspirated it into the goats lungs, and that's what killed her. The way they were administering it, I'm very surprised that they only killed one!
     
  10. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    """""These folks are trying to operate an organic farm, .....""""

    That's good ! Then they should also be learning how to make fertilizer compost out of those goats that die from worm overloads. I'm not kidding........make an 8ftx8ft bin out of 3/4in plywood...4ft tall. Get you a truck load of chicken house litter, and every time a goat dies of "natural" causes......you chunk them over in the bin, and cover them completely with a couple inches deep of litter.
    We used to do this at a deer hunting club, with all the guts, heads, and whatever. We would take this all natural compost, and fertilize the food plots that following year. Works great, but it don't smell too good....so put the bin in the back as far away as possible.

    I have went to Quest (same drug) , but it wasn't because the pour on cydectin (used orally) wasn't doing a good job......it was because I ran out of the pour on, and the Quest was easier for me to use on this small a herd. I am satisfied with the fecals done using both kinds here, that both work very well.

    WHIM
     
  11. KJFarm

    KJFarm Senior Member

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    My theory is, if you have goats dying with worms, then it's time to do something different than what you are doing now!!! I've had many people in the past couple of years ask me if I've lost any animals to parasites. When I tell them no, I haven't, then they want to know what I do to prevent overloads. What drives me crazy is that some of them will listen and learn, others just throw it over their shoulder and keep complaining about death losses. My family has told me for years, that if I just had a meter on my phone, and would send bills to all the people I talk to, I would be a rich woman! I love helping people with their goats, but it does get annoying, when you know that you've wasted your time with some of them. Oh well, it's just the every day life of a goat breeder - and I still love it!
     
  12. Sheryl

    Sheryl New Member

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    Well Janie, I for one really do appreciate the help and advice you have given me over the last year. Between pm'ing you, calling Vicki, and calling Kim, if something goes wrong for me its cause I didn't have the right stuff to treat to begin with, or I didn't listen to everything you told me. :biggrin


    I do appreciate your advice. So Thank you. Hope that makes you feel better out of the hundreds of people you try to help. :biggrin

    BTW I used the quest paste according to Kim's directions, and I am seeing good results!

    Sheryl
     
  13. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    Okay Floyd is right on this one, we all need to start switching to the injectable over the oral/pour-on. I talked with Dr. Paul Plummer tonight at Iowa State University and was discussing resistance and Cydectin. He named the Dr. who first did the oral/pour-on study and said that when the study was done the pharmacology of the oil based pour on was not taken into account. The rumen and intestines are water based atmospheres and the oil based product will not be as effective as the injectable. So the Moxidectin is a good anthelimtic(sp) but the route of administration can be improved.
    Tim
     
  14. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    OK Tim you use it test it out then come back to us with the tests. I might then change :)
     
  15. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    I will! When someone with as much goat knowlege as Paul; says to use it and he has read all of the research, I will change.
    Tim
     
  16. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    TIM.......was the injectable being give orally, or sub Q (injected) ? At what dose rate ? Did he have any comments on using it (moxidectin) orally in the form of Quest horse wormer ?

    WHIM
     
  17. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    Whim and all,
    Paul concurred with what information Floyd had above. The sub-Q route and at the rate equivalant to the cattle dose. I did not ask specifically about the Quest, but he did say that moxidectin was the exception in wormers where the injectable route is better than the oral. If I get a chance I will pose the Quest question to him.
    Tim
     
  18. FRW

    FRW New Member

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    On the original post there is a website you can go to that explains the dosage etc and why it is best to be done this way.
    I talked to my vet and he started this injectable over 3 1/2 mths ago and he ran 15 sets of fecals today at his clinic and they are lower than they have ever been even for this time of the year.He had a client he went out on today that wormed with cydectin orally 2 mths ago and picked up fresh fecals there and their levels were almost 3 times as high.

    What are you going to use when your animals are resistant to the cydectin pour on!!!!!
    When everyone was doubling Ivomec and using it orally they thought people who were giving a Pour on wormer orally were going to kill all of there goats!! There is always a time period that people have to learn that there are changes that need to be made. Some of the same who would not use cydectin pour on orally years ago were using it with in 3 mths.
    If you are doing your own fecals you have the upper hand to know when you need to worm and how often.
    This is just sharing information make your own decision....


    Updated Recommendation for Moxidectin (Cydectin) Treatment in Goats

    It is recommended that the cattle injectable formulation of moxidectin (recently approved by FDA) be used in goats because moxidectin has a superior pharmacokinetic profile in goats when administered by subcutaneous injection as compared to when administered orally. This means that a much greater proportion of the drug administered remains in the body at high therapeutic levels, but is no more persistent over time. Therefore, worm resistance to moxidectin will develop more slowly if given by injection to goats. Because the drug reaches high therapeutic levels when injected, there is no need to double the dose. So when administering moxidectin by subcutaneous injection, use the cattle dose which is on the label (0.09 mg/lb; 0.2 mg/kg; 21 day meat withdrawal ) This is the one exception with goats where a dewormer should be administered orally and where the regular label dose (not 2 times the dose) should be used. However, it is still OK to administer moxidectin orally to goats (just not preferred). But if an individual has a personal preference to administer moxidectin orally to goats, then the sheep oral drench at a 2X dose (0.18 mg/lb; 0.4 mg/kg) should be given.

    Please note that moxidectin (Cydectin) is not approved for use in goats and is therefore considered extra-label usage. Extra-label usage of drugs is permitted only by or on the order of a veterinarian, and only within a valid veterinary-client-patient relationship. Non-veterinarians should always consult with their veterinarian before using any drug in an extra-label manner.
     
  19. FRW

    FRW New Member

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    In this last post what they are refering to with the FDA APPROVED is the cattle injectable only I have not seen any information about other wormers that may be the same and or a generic to CYDECIN CATTLE INJECTABLE.
    Hope this answered more questions.
     
  20. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    So all the soybean oil, mineral oils, black oil sunflower seed oils, oils added to grain, to minerals (nearly all the mineral blocks from Sweet Lix contain mineral oil, alot of your feed during the winter contains linseed oil...most of these are petroleum products.

    POPPYCOCK! Vicki