Inducing Labor

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by cmharris6002, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. cmharris6002

    cmharris6002 Guest

    I have a doe that was due 2/17. I'd like to induce her but I have never done it before. I can get 2cc of lute from the vet. I have on hand Pre-Def (like Dex?) and Oxytocin. How should I go about doing this?

    Thanks,
    Christy
     
  2. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    2cc of Lute & 5cc of Dex. Expect labor 29-36 hours later. Since she is overdue, be prepared for the babies to arrive earlier.

    Sara
     

  3. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Sara,
    You ever used the Pre-def 2x instead of Dex?
    I don't know that I used the Pre-Def instead of Dex. I know we were always very cautious with it's use over Dex.

    Don't use oxytocin until she has kidded out.
    Kaye
     
  4. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    No Kaye, I haven't used Pre-def. I plan to stick with Dex. I figure if it ain't broke... :D

    Sara
     
  5. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    :biggrin Just what I thought! I read the lables and blah,blah,blah....I don't think you really want to use this drug the same as Dexamethasone. We used it a lot for external topicals and for cow deliveries where the calf had been stuck for a couple days! Really think you're putting your doe at risk.
    You're going to vet for Lute...just ask for 5cc of 2mg/ml Dexamethasone.?
    Kaye
     
  6. cmharris6002

    cmharris6002 Guest

    Okay, I'm getting both the DEX and the lute from the vet. Hr said that the Pre-Def won't work as well as the DEX for inducing, said that is his choice if a steroid is needed and you want to try to keep the pregnancy.

    Thanks guys!
    Christy
     
  7. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Actually, we use the Dex to develop the lungs on the kids, as much as helping the doe with inducing labor.
    That's what the Lute does.
    Kaye
     
  8. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    And also Kaye, I have found the timing of the delivery to be much more reliable when using Dex in conjunction with the Lute. Have you noticed this as well?

    Sara
     
  9. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    :biggrin Yes...instead of it being all over the board! The does seem to come around faster and get with the program rather than draggin' out the sympathy whine for a few days. :lol
    Kaye
     
  10. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I've been told that when you allow your doe to go through the natural process of labor in her time, the kids' lungs develop properly. When you induce, the lungs may not be ready. So, I see folks on this board giving dex along with lute to help both the kids and the doe in this process. Ok, so this sounds fine if there is something going on with the doe that it is in her best interest to get those kids out of there. A vet luted a friend's doe who was down with what appeared to be meningeal worm. She was trying to help the doe and the kids were viable. What I'm wondering is why so many of you, with tested CAE negative herds induce your does. It just seems to me that it would be harder on the goats. No one I know around here does it.
    Kathie
     
  11. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Kathie,

    I am getting really tired of this type of attitude. You come on this forum talking about "my friend", "my goat mentor", etc. Do YOU have any practical experience with goats? Have YOU induced your does?

    I don't need to explain the reason why I induce my does, but I will. I work 50+ hours a week and I refuse to let my does labor on their own and I find it necessary to be there when my does freshen. I freshen all of them on the weekends and have done so for over 10 years. With no ill effects I might add. I keep very accurate breeding records so I know EXACTLY when it is safe to induce.

    Until you have experience with inducing (or anything else your "friends" tell you about), your opinion just doesn't hold water with me. In my opinion of course.

    Sara
     
  12. cmharris6002

    cmharris6002 Guest

    Ok, so this sounds fine if there is something going on with the doe that it is in her best interest to get those kids out of there.

    Something is going on with her when she is due, and it is in her best interest for someone to be there for the birth like in Sara's situation. Something is going on with her when she is overdue and it is in her best interest to give birth before the kids become so big she could have a difficult or potentially dangerous birth, like my situation.

    I guess I just don't get where you're coming from.

    Christy
     
  13. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Sara
    I wasn't trying to argue with you. I can understand why you would want to do it being that you have a full time job. I guess I've been lucky in that I have my hubby home to kid out the does while I'm at work. I also take off work a week if I have alot of does due during one period of time. I know everyone may not be able to do that. I have been breeding goats for 7 years now and have experience in delivering, but have never induced. Prior to even knowing about this board, I'd considered inducing one of my does and was advised against it for the reason stated above. We are all entitled to do what fits for us and I don't condemn you. I totally understand that someone who knows goats needs to be there when they freshen. I am just trying to learn about different methods of goat management. I'm pretty sure I'd consider inducing if a goat were overdue or I had some kind of emergency where I'd have to be away from home. Any new medical prodedure with a goat is just a bit scary to me. I actually have been thinking about inducing Chelsea. She is a Nubian coming second freshener who prolapsed last year after she kidded and I'd really like for her to kid this year when the vet's office will be open. Ideally, I wish these higher risk does would be able to deliver in the hospital. The thing is, I wouldn't want to risk that the meds would increase her chances of a prolapse this year. None of the goat people I know have ever had a uterine prolapse in their goats and I haven't read about one on these forums either. Vicki suggested I breed her on her first heat last fall and I did that. Now, I'm just scared she may have a problem again this year. She's due March 13. As for my goat mentor, I used to work for her when she ran a commercial dairy and much of what I've learned from her has been in working alongside her with the goats. It has been just so much easier learning to pull kids, give shots and disbud actually seeing it done rather than just reading about it on this forum. Christy, I can understand you inducing an overdue goat.
    Kathie
     
  14. When do you give lute/dex? (Like what day in the pregnacy) 145days? slightly before or after?

    Never induced before and just trying to learn all about it. ;)
     
  15. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I for one would have no one that could take over and help one of my does. my DH can help me but only if I am here. So being here at birthing times is a must for me. I don't leave does to do their own thing ever. So using dex/lute and knowing for certain the conception date is just a given. Plus I have these wonderful mentors in Sara/Kaye and Vicki who have used this procedure for years and trust I trust them. In fact I wouldn't have goats today if it were for those three saving my butt when I first began.
     
  16. MRFBarbara

    MRFBarbara Guest

    I also work many hours weekly, and same reason as Sara induce my does so that I can be there.. I do not want to come home to dead babies, frozen here in the north, or trainwrecks with dead kids and a dead doe..
    I have never used Dex before and this will be my first year using it in conjunction with the lute.. I also have never had a bad experience in inducing does and have been doing this for about five years now.. Many of us cannot afford to lose the does or kids, this is our income to feed the following year and keep the goats..
    Interesting story.. I sold a buck to my vet (old vet that was a fool) one year, she bred her doe.. She called me in the middle of January to tell me that the triplet doe babies had been born in the middle of the night and died due to hypothermia.. This out of a VET, for petes sake.. and she knew her doe was in labor and went to bed..
    I will not sell her an animal again.. ever.. She had the drugs and the means to induce labor, get her does kids on the ground and still get her sleep.. there just is no excuse for that.. NOt in my opinion ...
    Barbara
     
  17. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    I've had 15 yrs. experience with lute before using the Dex and 6 yrs of Dex with the lute and to date one problem. I also believe that this one problem was NOT due to the lute and Dex...rather my stupidity of NOT using it sooner!! The Obie doe with the torn uterus, due to an EXTRA LARGE buck kid, could have been avoided IF I had induced her as planned 4 days earlier. BUT, I let my DH talk me into waiting longer! :mad That's exactly what I get for not using the knowledge that I have and letting someone else with less experience convince me otherwise! No use re-hashing this...but from now on, when I KNOW that doe WILL have problems I'll use my own judgement.

    I don't have an outside job to use as my reason.....my does health, live kids, live doe, and I absolutely refuse to call ANY of the vets around here to do a c-section. I'll friggin' do it myself...afterall, it SURE wouldn't be the first one and wouldn't be the last! Every blasted one of them that will do a c-section DOESN'T have a gas machine and insists on using Zylazine & Ketamine! BAD CHOICE, in my opinion.
    I *jokingly* use the excuse that I won't loose sleep...but I also will not let one doe kid here that I am not in attendance of the kidding! I sell kids that I ASSURE the buyers has been raised on heat-treated colostrum/pasturized milk...and if that doe kids with me NOT right there to catch it, would be DESTROYED because, I wouldn't feel I was being honest with the buyers! I put a lot of stock in my word and am down right anal about telling the truth! Wives tales and incorrect information I have absolutely no use for...I'm trained in modern medicine and If I DON'T know, I have no problems calling an institution that has done the research or someone (qualified) with a LOT more experience on the subject than I might have!

    Someone else kidding out my does????? It DON'T HAPPEN here! IF I WERE DEAD...maybe. Does kidding are TOP PRIORITY here over EVERYTHING ELSE. Something important happening, the doe is induced so I can be here. Anal? probably in some person's view... not mine!
    Kaye
     
  18. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I know for myself that sometimes on the forum you do feel that you aren't being asked a question you are being questioned. And my first reaction to the post was......

    Like Sara would do anything to cause harm to her goats that are 1st at nationals, or Grand Champion Junior Lamancha at nationals or top ten on DHIR or first in milk, or geeze even selling for the price she gets :) or or or....

    I mean really if this was in anyway harmful to our goats or their kids do you think we would do it to them, or worse...give this information to all of you to make you not succeed? And if you feel this way you shouldn't be on this forum.

    Your going to read what we consider crap on the internet. We don't sit here and write what we read in a book, we write what happens or has happened to us personally for all of you to learn from. It's why we have such an eclectic group of folks for all of you to choose who to listen to. I mean really...when 3 people on this forum are folks who I call when I am in a pinch, Kaye, Tim and Sara...that's a pretty darn good board to listen to.

    So back to it now....I also luted routinely, pre dex Barb. Vicki
     
  19. Sheryl

    Sheryl New Member

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    :biggrin And you experienced breeders are so nice and answer our questions, over, and over, and over, and over again. Cause us that don't know all this stuff...well we can sometimes be kinda brain dead. It doesn't always sink in or that little light bulb doesn't always come on :yeahthat

    Thank you so much for telling us again....and again....and again....


    We really do appreciate it...at least I do.

    Sheryl
     
  20. Heavenly Angels

    Heavenly Angels New Member

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    what day is considered OVER DUE??


    Mary Lou