I need some help...

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by trnubian, May 20, 2008.

  1. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    Ok first off I want to say that I don't have CMPK I have looked around, called the vet, no one has it around me. I have access to calcium gluconate 23% and dextrose 50% and that is about it. I ordered some MFO and Ammino Acid solution this morning so I am hoping it will be here by tomorrow maybe. Jeffers is fast. But I have to get from now till then.

    Ok here is the situation.

    About 5 days ago Maria stopped eating her grain. And then she was slowing down eating her hay. She looked depressed and stood by the back wall. The only thing she would eat was grass in the pasture. Her ligaments were still there and she had no milk so I didn't think she was going to kid. So I figured it was the start of hypocalceimia. So I drenched her with 8 oz. of calcium glconat 23% and I also gave her about 30cc's of dextrose orally. She seemed to come around after that so I stopped doing it. (Probably shouldn't have.) She started chowing down on her hay and I would give her a small handful of grain about 3 times a day.

    So what I did to try to keep her calcium levels up after I gave her the gluconat was Sue Reith's hoemade CMPK since I can't seem to find the real stuff here. I gave her that 2 times a day.

    I have also been giving her karo water daily just in case she was going to start with ketosis from not eating well before.

    Well Sunday she started not wanting her grain again. She seemed ok other than that but I went ahead and gave her another 8 oz. orally of Calcium Gluconat 3%. I also did the dextrose again too. She hasn't wanted grain since Sunday and today she was not wanting her hay so much either.

    Laura and I went to get hay this morning and when we got back she was shaking a little bit. I took her temperature and Vi's to compare. Vi's was 102.1 and Maria's was 101.6.

    So I have gone ahead and given her 36cc of Calcium Gluconate sub-Q.

    Is this what I should be doing? Do I need to do anything else. She almost sounds like she has a little bit of a rattle in her chest and everyonce in while she coughs.

    I am kind of at a loss as to how much of what to give her and for how long.

    Can you help me?
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    In my opinion you need to give her Sue Reiths formula until your supply comes in and also do it 3 times a day. Also probios and Fortified B Complex. I don't go in for the calcium Gluconate as has no magnesium and potasium in it. Also don't use the dextros. I just don't think then need all that sugar high and then drop. But that is me.
     

  3. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    I can go ahead and give her the CMPK homemade stuff but it is not working. Will 3 times a day really do that much more for her? I don't want to let her backslide more if I can help it, as it could be 2 more days before my order is in.

    I do have Vit. B so I will give her that. She is looking a little better after the Sub. Q dose of the gluconate. CaN I give her both the gluconate and the CMPK stuff or is that too much at once?

    I was giving her the dextrose to combat any ketosis she may have.

    Thanks for your help!
     
  4. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    How far away is Avilla from you? there's a good goat vet there I've heard He may have some cmpk. There has to be a dairy cow vet around somewhere?
     
  5. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    I have no idea where Avila is to me. :/ BUT I Do have good news. Maria is MUCH better tonight up and eating and looking perky. She HATED her treatment of more calcium gluconate Sub. Q, 45 cc's of Goat Power Punch, 12 cc's of Vitamin B, and about 3 Tables spoons of yogurt. Oh and a few vanilla wafers and soda crackers to boot. lol

    I am going to kep trying this approach as she was soooo much better this afternoon after her first dose of Sub. Q Calcium gluconate.

    Thanks for everyone's help!
     
  6. Shykid Acres

    Shykid Acres Guest

    I read about you giving her hay and grain. Are you giving her a source of Alfalfa, whether hay or pellets? I think I might have missed it. That is how you can most likely prevent an onslaught of Hypocalcemia. You probably already knew that though.
     
  7. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    Yep I always feed alfalfa hay to my girls. The only time I don't is when they are first dried off in the fall. ( I don't milk year round.)

    I have always tried prevention with her with lots of alfalfa and a little bit of grain to balance out the Ca to P ratio but for some reason with this doe in particular it does not work. This is the second year she has had this problem. :(
    She may not get bred next fall due to that fact. We shall see....
     
  8. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    Before we used cmpk, we always had calcium gluconate on hand for our alpines. For a few years we ended up proactively drenching after they kidded to prevent hypocalcemia in the milkers. Had to do this until we had them eating mostly alfalfa hay. We used the calcium gluconate drenches for a couple of weeks, I don't believe giving it a few times is going to work. We used it orally, 60 cc at a time.

    For this girl at least you might consider giving her alfalfa throughout her next pregnancy and then see how she does. I bet she isn't laying down enough calcium in her body to support that early milking period.
     
  9. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    This doe has always had alfalfa throughout her pregnancy from day one of conception. She is always dried off before she is bred.

    I now have my order of MFO solution here (it's very similar to CMPK) so I am going to use this till she kids.

    I have been regularly treating her with Calcium Gluconate for the last 2 days and she has stayed up and eating so it is working so far. The MFO solution I will use until about a week after she kids just to make sure she can handle it and then I will watch her closely from there.
     
  10. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    This doe has always had alfalfa throughout her pregnancy from day one of conception. She is always dried off before she is bred.
    .............................................

    With her extended dry periods how about feeding her alfalfa pellets when dry?

    Also of course you need to work on her minerals, there is something defficient in her that is causing her not to store and utilize the calcium you are offering her. There is something different about this doe if you aren't having problems in others....does she give you more milk? More kids? Younger? Low man on the totem pole so she really isn't getting as much of anything as the others? vicki
     
  11. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    I can't really think of anything different/ She is in a pen by herself as she and the other girls don't get along. She is right beside them and can go outside right beside them too. She INHALES mineral all the time. I am using the Calf Manna goat minerals right now and the only thing different about them that I am not sure about is the AC added to them.

    She is shiny and healthy otherwise. She is 7 years old. She was a tub of lard yearlig two year old and was working it off as a three year old. (And I do mean BIG, her neck looked short and was HUGE). We couldn't get the weight off of her at all until she had quads and then it majicly disappeared and she turned into this lovely dairy animal perfect weight.

    She has never ben the brightest bulb in the box but I wouldn't think that has anything to do with it. When she was younger she was really and I do mean REALLY dumb but she has come out of that. As long as everything is routine she is good to go.
    She doesn't milk a ton, being one of the lower milkers here at about 7-9 lb. a day.

    I could offer her alfalfa pellets when she is dry and se how that goes....
     
  12. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Have a photo? Also how is your mineral different than what others in your area use? Do they use bo-se? Do they copper bolus? How is your grain or hay different? Vicki
     
  13. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

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    Could she have a worm or cocci burden different from the others (either more susceptable or the different pen) and then be losing some of her nutrition to the parasites?
     
  14. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    Ok I got pictures of her for you all to see. She is a seven year old and this will be her 6th freshening.

    As far as minerals go, one of my neighbors only uses the trace mineral block (the red one). My cousin ran out of mineral and didn't use ANY this winter. He is using ADE cattle mineral now.

    We all give Bo-Se in the fall before breeding and the day that they kid.

    No one around here copper boluses.

    We all use the same grain mixture of corn, oats, Provider 38, oil and SOME (very little) molasses. My hay is the same as theirs (alfalfa) it may be a little better quality.

    I worm before breedig and when the does kid. Alot of the others worm once a year and that's it.

    I am just right now trying to figure out what the problem with her is. :crazy

    She is doingreally well now on the MFO and ammino acids. She is eating her hay well and is nibbling on some grain. She is also drinking well and pooping and peeing frequently.

    Here are some pictures of her.
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    Sorry caught this one as she was about to pee.
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