How to Rehydrate the SQ way?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by stacy adams, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    This discussion came up the other day, about how to rehydrate an adult goat via the Sub-Q way instead of IV, and we tried to find something on-line, but couldn't. :O I've been down myself with something c*@#y and DH wasn't comfortable doing it, but the doe has been peeing and pooping berries, even though we haven't seen her drink. Would you still recommend rehydrating her?
    I know that fluids (Lactated Ringers or Saline) are warmed to body temp (102) but what size needle do you use? and where do you do it? Can you do it anywhere? How much and for how long?
    Thanks..
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Lactated ringers only here and I put just behind the shoulder makes a hands size bubble and then find a different spot. I wouldn't use saline alone myself.
     

  3. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    Hi Stacy,

    When I used the LR for 14 days straight on that pneumonia doe I had that wasn't drinking I found this info. on this site on goat-keeping section. I used the dosage given under LR area. I was doing it three times a day and used the sides of the neck and all over her rib area.

    I copied it:
    IV / SQ (SC) SOLUTIONS
    See also
    SQ(SC) Fluid Therapy
    &
    Dehydration

    Isotonic Normal Saline (NS)
    Used to replace body fluids
    0.9% Sodium chloride / NaCl 0.9% (NS)
    Lactated Ringer’s (LR)



    Hypertonic
    More concentrated than plasma
    Used to draw water from tissue




    Hypotonic
    Less concentrated than plasma
    Used to rehydrate tissue
    5% Dextrose in Water (D5W)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    LACTATE RINGERS, L.R.
    Usually an Rx item but you can occasionaly find OTC
    To correct fluid and electrolyte deficits and mild acidosis. Lactated Ringer’s solution contains lactate, which is converted by the liver to bicarbonate. Animals with severe liver pathology may fail to convert lactate to bicarbonate. Do not use in the treatment of lactic acidosis. Lactic acidosis occurs due to the build up of lactic acid. Adding lactated ringers will increase the lactic acid levels. Use Normal Saline 0.9% SC (sodium chloride) to rehydrate in the case of lactic acidosis.
    Use in emergency to rehydrate animal via SC (SQ) injection or drip.
    Use in caution in animals with liver disease or anorexia
    May induce low sodium with multiple infusions
    Peritoneal [IP] injection of fluids is not recommended in goats (used most often in piglets, lambs, and kittens).
    1000ml for a dehydrated adult doe (comes in 250/500/1000ML bags).
    Can add not more than 50ml of 50% dextrose to the 1000ml bag/vial.
    CLASS: 1. Isotonic crystalloid volume expander. 2. Physiologic electrolyte solution.
    PHARMACOLOGICAL EFFECTS: Expands circulating blood volume by approximating the fluid and electrolyte composition of the blood.
    Lactate is metabolized by the liver and converted to bicarbonate, which aids in the correction of mild acidosis.
    Isotonic solution of 273 mOsm/L.
    The pH range is 6.0 - 7.5.
    Caloric Value (per L) 9
    Active Ingredient(s): Each 100 mL of sterile aqueous solution contains:

    Sodium chloride 600 mg
    Sodium lactate 310 mg
    Potassium chloride 30 mg
    Calcium chloride - 2H2O 20 mg
    Water for injection q.s.
    Milliequivalents per liter:

    Sodium 130 mEq/L
    Potassium 4.0 mEq/L
    Calcium 2.7 mEq/L
    Total osmolar concentration 276 mOsm/L

    Warm solution to body temperature and administer 1 to 2 mL/lb of body weight, or as determined by condition of animal, at a rate of 10 to 30 mL per minute under strict asepsis. May be repeated as necessary.
    Precaution(s): Store at controlled room temperature between 2 º-30 ºC (36 º-86 ºF).

    Contains no preservatives. Partial bags maybe be refrigerated for 1-3 days, otherwise use entire contents when first opened.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    NORMOSOL-R
    Usually an Rx item but you can occasionaly find OTC
    All-purpose replacement fluid used to correct fluid and electrolyte deficits and metabolic acidosis.
    A good choice for maintenance solution (lower in sodium and higher in potassium than rehydration fluids).

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    NORMOSOL-R (electrolytes & water)
    pH 6.6 (also Normosol-R 7.4) - Caloric Value (per L) = 18
    isotonic

    Ingredient Strength
    MAGNESIUM CHLORIDE 0.14 MG / ML
    POTASSIUM CHLORIDE 0.37 MG / ML
    SODIUM ACETATE 2.22 MG / ML
    SODIUM CHLORIDE 5.26 MG / ML
    SODIUM GLUCONATE 5.02 MG / ML

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Also:
    NORMOSOL-R (electrolytes & 5% dextrose)
    IONOSOL MB (electrolytes & 5% dextrose)
    IONOSOL B (electrolytes & 5% dextrose)
    IONOSOL T (electrolytes & 5% dextrose)
    With dextrose solutions some opacity of the plastic due to moisture absorption during the sterilization process may be observed. This is normal and does not affect the solution quality or safety.
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    To correct fluid and electrolyte deficits and mild acidosis. Lactated Ringer’s solution contains lactate, which is converted by the liver to bicarbonate. Animals with severe liver pathology may fail to convert lactate to bicarbonate. Do not use in the treatment of lactic acidosis. Lactic acidosis occurs due to the build up of lactic acid. Adding lactated ringers will increase the lactic acid levels. Use Normal Saline 0.9% SC (sodium chloride) to rehydrate in the case of lactic acidosis.
    .............................

    Make sure you understand this completely when treating milkfever. If you also add the PG we add orally you are setting the doe up for lactic acidosis. When the temp will not come back up you have to change treatments. Sometimes the simple addition of rehydrating the animal turns the metobolic process around. Vicki
     
  5. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    No milkfever here.. this is the doe with aspiration pneumonia.. The gurgle is gone, but is still breathing heavy. She is peeing and pooping (we saw berries!) but her skin is tight and I thought maybe she was a bit dehydrated. Are you not recommending the Lactated Ringers?
    I am so confused.. and my head is still stuffy, which doesn't help.
    Stacy
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    No Stacy, use it, if it's that you will see immediate results. Ever been dehydrated and then got IV fluids? Vicki
     
  7. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

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    I use the 20ga 1/2" needle and a latge syringe when I have to rehydrate mine it comes with them when you order it from Hoeggers. That is what I use. also just behind the shoulder and a hand size bubble ...you will feel it go away ...its weird too when it does it. I just put it under the skin like a SQ shot...not hard to do unless the doe is squirming around.
     
  8. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    oh i used the 18 ga. needles we use for the cattle. had my husband pick up a few 20 ga. at the time but they were so flimsy that i stuck with the steel 18 ga. use the little butterfly attatchment and stick as few times as you can that way.
     
  9. susie

    susie New Member

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    "If you also add the PG we add orally you are setting the doe up for lactic acidosis. "

    What's the PG?

    Thanks!
     
  10. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Propolyn Glycol....which in itself is this strange thing we do to give the girls energy. The problem is the day you start drenching with it that night they stop eating :) There has to be a bettter way of supplying energy than PG. Vicki
     
  11. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    Ok, more confusion.. :help2 My DH brought home the LR , and some tubing, like you would see on an IV.. which is what I though I was to use. But my sister, an RN said that was for doing an IV, and that I needed to pull up 30cc in a syringe and give it SQ.. :/ Is this what everyone's doing?
    I did heat it to 102 degrees before we did this.. Honestly, I don't think it fazed her and we gave her 50cc. It was a smallish bubble, from what I had pictured in my mind..
    My sis says that she's in congestive heart failure.. :down
     
  12. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Yes you pull it up in syringe and give SQ
    Geeze hope your sis is wrong on the heart failure.
     
  13. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

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    Your IV kit should come with a little butterfly tube thingy. small short tube which you put a needle on one end and has a port you can insert a syringe into the other end. clamp in the middle. so you can draw up the fluid, insert into the port and fill the line then stick the doe and dispense the syringe and then clamp off and then refill the syringe and stick back into the line (which is still in the doe) and unclamp and give more in the same spot w/o re-sticking. did that make sense? I usually gave 1 1/2 of my 60cc syringe fulls in one spot. would leave it in to absorb while refilling my syringe for the next site. i think i was giving around 420cc /day-using about half a bag a day on my doe who wasn't drinking at all.