How does one "Check out" a herd?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by kidsngarden, Jan 12, 2008.

  1. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    I'm seriously swaying toward alpines when I "start over" in late spring this year. I hear that tracey's goats are awesome, but they are in ID and I am not sure I can pay the price for shipping, etc. There is a herd down in Tacoma, about three hours from me. He's won lots of awards, etc. But the numbers don't make any sense to me. So how do I find out if it's a good herd to buy from, is there a list somewhere and where do I go to figure out what all those LA #'s mean?

    Bethany
     
  2. Josie

    Josie New Member

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    What's invaluable is to be able to ask a breeder you trust if its a good herd. If you can do it that way you can find out if its a good herd or one to avoid despite all the numbers. :)

    Don't write off getting a couple kids from Tracy! I'm clear in IL and amazingly got three kids from her last yr - they weren't flown out here. :) Its amazing what can be coordinated.

    Just a couple thoughts!
    Josie
     

  3. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    yep ID is not that far from WA
     
  4. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    PM Tracy and ask her about the herd. She's from that area and might know the breeder. Word of mouth is sometimes better than scores,records,ect....

    And I too wouldn't rule out Tracy's herd. Tee,hee....IF I liked Alpines and IF I lived closer...that's where I would go. There's no "fluff" to her herd...what you see, is what you get.
    Kaye
     
  5. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    How far are you from Walla Walla? Wailatpu is in that area and has very nice Alpines. I think Tracy uses some of their bloodlines. I know my friend here in Montana has Alpines from their lines and they're awesome goats. Many are now finished champions.
     
  6. CGFarm

    CGFarm New Member

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  7. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    Thanks for that link! It's Awesome!

    The guy in Tacoma has some VERY pricey kids! I know you get what you pay for, right? Tracey and Trisha have already said he is good. I'm trying to decide if I pay to ship from Tracey how the cost would be.

    I looked at the site for the gals in Walla Walla too, Seemed like it hadn't been updated in awhile so I didn't look at it too hard. Walla walla is about 6-7 hours from me.

    Bethany
     
  8. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho Member

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    Aww, you guys are too sweet :biggrin

    I believe Bethany is talking about Mark Baden's Olentangy herd being close to her. He has some very nice animals, and he keeps a very clean herd. I think she's on the opposite side of the state from Waiilatpu though.

    Like Josie said, sometimes we can really be creative finding goaties rides! Heck, we got her those 3 out there in for less than it would have cost to fly one!

    Nice page on how to read the pedigrees!

    Tracy
     
  9. Halo-M Nubians

    Halo-M Nubians New Member

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    I've seen Marks goats at the show..Nice! Don't know anything other than that. Bethany..a few time a year we make the drive from Spokane to Issiquah...even more frequently to Moses Lake and Quincy..We could help with that part of the trip from Tracy's if it came to it. Also...don't forget I have some nice Nubians *Smile*
     
  10. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    oooo, the trip from spokane to this side of the mountains would be awesome! tracey and I were just talking transportation via PM.

    Nubians, I have issues with nubians. First is the noise, I know I'm picky. But the second is it seems like EVERYONE has nubians and I just have to be different! My husband says yes to nubians or alpines, no to La Mancha's for sure. I do love La Mancha's but they are a hard sell here. he doesn't like them because both the doe we had and our visiting buck are so good to people but not so nice to other goats! Now, see, we are basing this on a very narrow view point in our limited experience with goats we've owned and reading. But we have owned two pure alpines, and currently have two that are part alpine and we have loved the whole package, looks, temperament, noise etc.

    And I am wondering this about nubians, do they all grow hooves quick as lightening? Ours needs a trim 4 weeks on the nose and when she is preggers they grow like CRAZY!!!! Don't know if that's a breed thing or just her...

    But everyone who see's a nubian just falls in love, don't they? They are so very pretty! I feel the same way about boers too! We had two whethers last year from our nubian bred to a boer that were the prettiest things you have ever seen. Too bad they went to the freezer... Tell me they all aren't noisey...maybe I'll consider it! Maybe just mine is noisey, but like I've said in other posts, my favorite time of year is when she is bred and Quiet!!! my other goats bawl too, but it just doesn't carry into the next county! (la mancha's esp. so soft and quiet!)

    Bethany
     
  11. OK...this is just going to thrown out there.

    Bethany where in WA state are ya kinda of at? And Tracy where in ID are you at? I know a sheep breeder in western WA around the seattle area that goes to the Debois Experiment station in ID about 3 times a year to swap rams. I know that he has before hauled other animals for people if they would meet him on the interstate at a rest area. Also, I know that he is CHEAP when it comes to hauling. He hauled a ram back to MO from WA for me one time since he was coming this way to a sale and all he charged was $150. So, if I kinda of know where you guys are I might be able to talk him into helping. That is if you dont mind dealing with an OLD shepard.

    Ken in MI
     
  12. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Yep those who can't breed competetive Nubians breed Alpines :)

    You check out a herd exactly like you are doing. Ask those who breed the same breed or who know the person from their show circuit. And be much more impressed with some areas LA scores than their show wins. Make sure you listen closely when folks talk about the herd, that they are not talking about the breeder (both ends of the specturm he/she is just soo nice to he/she is a witch) you want to hear about the bad only if it relates to the stock or bad business practices or no aftercare..... things like this, not that they don't like the breeder. I am not impressed by niceness, I want a good animal.

    What bloodlines in Alpine do you find the most attractive? And how were they made? That's what you want to reproduce at your place. And do not buy outcrossed animals, buy proven consistant bloodlines, repeat breedings are awesome if you can find them for sale. Don't buy a kid out of an old linebred herd thats then bred to a new young buck from another line...let the breeder see if it is going to work before you end up with them. Vicki
     
  13. Halo-M Nubians

    Halo-M Nubians New Member

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    I will not try to talk you out of Alpines, but... My first few goat were alpines, they're personality's were good. What really sold me on the Nubians was milk flavor..not trying to generalize but very good consistant flavor. IMO the reason they are so popular..well that and the ears!! It is true when you are at a show and the nubians come out-a dull roar is being nice. But I think you've probably read on here that is not always the case. I Never hear my girls unless they see me at feeding time. I had one doe kid born here who was noisy until well after she was weaned...haven't herd her for awhile now. I bought a doe in Nov you has the most HORRIBLE "I am dying" baa. She calls to me when I am outside, otherwise she is quiet. Okay, I said I would't try to talk you out of Alpines. Enough said..Those alpines make a LOT of milk.

    I would be glad to try and help get your goats home. I have had folks help me in the same way.
     
  14. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Shoot...I'll try to talk you out of Alpines and into Sables! Pretty, with lots of milk (they are Saanens, after all :) )
    with that great Saanen temperament! Of course nothing wrong with a pretty white Saanen either! :biggrin

    Really, there are so many ways to get goats safely transported....meet at a show (Wild Rose show is in Moses Lake near the end of May). If Tracy can't make it, maybe someone else is coming (Ken?) etc. etc.

    So do you think we could have a thread like we have for kid counts, for folks looking to transport?
    Then if someone is making a trip or knows someone, we can coordinate, sell/buy some kids we might not
    otherwise be able to, due to cost, etc.

    I know for me, it would be a huge help to know someone is going to Southern Idaho or to California or ?? when someone contacts me about Saanens, Sables, Boers, or Pyrenees....I could work on getting them what they
    want without a lot more expense, and hopefully whoever is going can get some gas $$$ to help defray the cost of their trip.

    Camille

    P.S. Personally I feel that you want to pick a breeder with animals that you like but it also needs to be a breeder that you trust.
     
  15. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

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    Camille-that a great idea, about a transport thread. Up to the mods of course, but it would be a great help to those who want to purchase from out of the area. Shipping is soooo expensive! I'm in NW AR and planning to run to Vickis this spring, (and hoping to have the chance to swing by and see Tims Pruitville herd) and hope to bring back for Ashley and myself, would be glad to bring back for others too.
     
  16. Kalne

    Kalne New Member

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    I think the transport thread is a great idea!

    About the taste of Nubian vs. Alpine milk....that is the reason my dd's is skeptical about switching totally to Alpines. We have a nupine whose milk tastes fine BUT she likes to get into weeds that the others don't and will have 'off' days.
     
  17. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho Member

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    That might be true for Texas, but it sure isn't in District 7. Ken's show last year was compared to a mini-Alpine nationals!

    Anyhow, I grew up with Nubians and that was more than enough for me :nooo The closest I would ever come to them again would be if I could find another Snubian doe like my MaryAnne was. I like my Alpines, but the world would be an oh-so-boring place if we all liked the same thing, wouldn't it?

    Really though, there are always options on transportation, like those already mentioned.

    Tracy
     
  18. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    Ok, I'm not up to speed on my goatease...So when you say what bloodlines do I find most attractive are you talking herds I think look good in my very uneducated opinion? and what is an outcrossed animal?

    I know that how I like the breeder shouldn't matter so much, but it does a little to me. At first I was thinking like you are, Vicki, but then I thought, "I need someone who will be kinda nice and let me ask a lot of questions and be patient with me" Because I am new to all this registered, LA, ADGA stuff. I also would like to buy from someone I can have some sort of a relationship with. Not that I'm going to call them every day or anthing, but someone who maybe I would buy from again or call and ask a question now and again.

    I am kind of scared about buying now. If I go with someone I don't trust I could really get screwed because I don't know anything and there's only so much reading can do...it can't compensate for real experience. Right now someone could say, "yes this is the one" and I would buy it, and find out later it was one of their BAD culls!

    Bethany
     
  19. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    I sticky thread for transportation would be AWESOME!!!!

    You know at first (cause I forgot about alpines) I was thinking Saanen. My husband too. He likes those white goats!

    I have a "mutt" doe who is 1/2 saanen, 1/4 nubian, 1/4 french alpine and she is just THE BEST as far as temperament goes. The only thing I don't like is she is just this massive girl. Hard to control if she gets it in her head she isn't gonna do what you want. Because of her size she easily became herd queen when we got her the other goats just move out of the way when she comes by. And yet that goat rarely says a peep. This will be her first freshening and her mama is an awesome milker so I expect good things from her. I wish that it was "accepted" to get her genetics passed down. She could be prettier and I would definetely breed her to a buck with a small gene, but oh I do like her! I'm actually trying to decide if she kids well and tests negative on everything if I might just keep her for a super duper milking machine!!!

    Bethany
     
  20. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    And out cross animal....say a breeder uses her own bucks, uses her friends bucks which are also very related, and then purchases a buck with no similar pedigree in the first several generations...this is an outcross buck and usually seen when someone tried to add the latest invogue pedigree to their bloodline. Not that this is a bad thing to do, just a bad thing to sell to a new person.

    And yes I do think a new person should get different treatment than a breeder. I like to help new folks get started and help them choose, a breeder knows going in what they want, they may want that outcross for another reason.

    When purchasing...buy a doeling out of a damline the breeder themselves have kept daughters out of, who are milking now and they are keeping even those daughters. Expect to pay more. Not in your breed but if you were going nubian and went to Tim's website, very obviously he keeps his Berry line alot. Sara her Tangy line. Me my Shoofly line. So buying a line that is working for the breeder takes some of the risk of buying kids. When I started over early in 2001, I started with young milkers, everything there is for you to see, no guessing, take your mentor with you to help you choose or simpy to say heah or nay....no 35 points for udder hidden. Then buy a linebred buckling and something else you are interested in trying as a companion.

    What I meant about the breeder is if your mentor, who does not need to be the person you buy goats from, sends you somewhere to purchase goats, buy the goats. On some forums and even on private emal when you say outloud you are buying from me...I have someone who will come on and tell you this big ole long story about how horrible I am. But if you read the story, the animals she purchasd from me are clean, she still owns one of them. And I think new folks are lucky to start with my stock, with my bloodline and with my aftercare. But you aren't going to find many breeders doing what I do, they simply won't put themselves out there for those one or two folks to take pot shots at all the time.

    And the "Those who can't breed nubians buy Alpines" is a very old joke. It does seem that folks dabble in Nubians and then move to Alpine next.

    Don't let anyone talk you out of your breed of choice. And yes just 6 hours away go with Tracy and what she is putting together there. And if she feels you should get a buck or a doe from another breeder she knows, to compliment your purchase, than do it. Then as you get through a few breeding seasons, then you can add your ideas to the bloodline with some different animals, perhaps AI. Vicki